Is there a link that shows what you speak of?Originally Posted by lionelhutz
I don't need the 1x cam signal from the front cover, only the 4x crank signal.
I see nothing on EFIConnection's site that shows a Gen I front cover with provision for a double row timing set, reluctor and CKP.
The ONLY cover I've seen so far that accommodates all 3 items is the billet cover offered by TPiS for close to $300.
Please provide a link so I can see what you are suggesting.
Thanks!
Elm
Look at EFI Connections SBC page part way down.
http://www.eficonnection.com/temp/24x_coming_soon.png
EFI connection just sells 24X and 58X conversion stuff.
The 96-97 LT1 had a 4X wheel and cover on it. Not sure how well it clears a double row chain.
Why not just get a good single row chain?
Last edited by lionelhutz; 12-07-2013 at 05:04 AM.
Ahhh.. Yes, this looks very similar to the TPiS billet timing cover that costs $300 (for just the cover) with the added CMP sensor modification.
EFIConnection's solution, while very slick, will most likely be very pricey.
I can't justify the cost for convenience factor if I can engineer a solution that better addresses my specific application at a fraction of the cost.
Just sayin'
I plan on essentially doing the same thing (CMP sensor still in the distributor) with a cast aluminum marine cover with the 4x reluctor at a fraction of the cost.
The 4x GM reluctor will clear a double roller chain if I put a spacer behind it (.150" or so from what I've read from others), which is simple enough to fabricate and also adding a sensor mount on the cover. I have a fairly expensive double row timing set that has less than 100 miles on it so pitching it and going back to a single is not an option.
I don't mind spending the money where necessary but in this case, I'd rather spend a little R&D time and spend the money on things I can't create on my own.
I appreciate the suggestions though and this is the kinda stuff I want to see and learn about-
Some of these things I'll end up using, others I won't but it's all good information regardless.
Thanks!
Elm
TPIS actually makes the BILLET front timing covers that EFIConnection sells. $299 for a front timing cover.Ahhh.. Yes, this looks very similar to the TPiS billet timing cover that costs $300 (for just the cover) with the added CMP sensor modification.
EFIConnection's solution, while very slick, will most likely be very pricey.
I can't justify the cost for convenience factor if I can engineer a solution that better addresses my specific application at a fraction of the cost.
Just sayin'
Thanks!
Elm
Over on Third Gen forums, the forums that deal with teh 82-92 Camaro/Firbirds. There is a guy named Craig Moates that owns Moates, the company that sells EFI tuninge quipement and the like. Look up his profile his username is "Craig Moates"and he describes how he machined up a spacer that allows double roller timing chains using teh stock plastic L31/30 (Vortec 350/305) timing cover along with a crank position relcutor and crank position sensor. I think you are correct in your 0.150" spec IIRC.
peace
Hog
OK, while I'm getting my CKP cover/mounting engineered, I have other sensor related questions:
What type (make / part number) of heated O2 sensors would work best with the 12200411 on a TPI set-up?
These things aren't cheap and I'd like to avoid the "trial and error" method of finding the proper ones.
Also, is there a preference in MAF sensors? There are the traditional round housings with the mesh inserts and the latest ones are the 'Blade' type that seem much more compact and can potentially be mounted more easily. I'm looking at going with the 5-wire style that has the air temp sensor integrated with the MAF. Any pros/cons for either? Is there a performance or reliability different between the two?
I'll be running a 71mm throttle body on the FIRST TPI intake if that makes a difference-
Again, thanks to everyone taking the time to comment and offer suggestions and advice.
Elm
If the online parts information is correct, the 2002 Express Van 5.7 liter (Vin R) uses AC Delco part # AFS105 for the upstream (before catalytic converter) Heated O2 Sensors (HO2S). I would use the AFS105 HO2S for a TPI system controlled by the 12200411 PCM. I'm sure aftermarket brands can be cross referenced to the AFS105 part number. I'm sure the aftermarket HO2S are competitively priced compared to the AFS105 pricing. The 12200411 uses 4 HO2S 1 upstream, 1 downstream on each side of the engine to make a total of 4 HO2S. The two downstream HO2S can be eliminated with custom PCM Flash Programming.
The MAF is optional with the 12200411 PCM, but custom Flash Programming is required. The 2002 Express Van 5.7 liter (VIN R) used a 3 Wire MAF Sensor. The LS 5.3 liter MAF Sensor is 5 wire, a segment swap of the 5.3 liter MAF Parameters will need to be done for the 1200411 PCM Flash Programming.
dave w
Thank you Dave!
Seems there are quite a few vendors selling these O2 sensors and they are all around $30-$40 a pop. Are any brand(s) more desirable than the other? I'm thinking I should stay with Delco, Delphi, Denso, Bosch or ?? Any brands more reliable than the other?
For the MAF, I won't be running the 3-wire as I'd rather have the air temp sensor with the MAF vs in the plenum of the intake. I'm trying to decide if the 85mm Corvette 5-wire MAF or the 'Blade' style 5-wire MAF is the better way to go? Again, my main concern is reliability and ease of installation. Are the Blade style more temperamental than the traditional round housing MAFs?
Thanks again!
Elm
This is a 24x reluctor I got from EFIConn. it was only $150 but is for single timing chain only. I run a hydraulic roller cam dont plan on revving over 7000rpm. GM didnt even run a double on the 1996 LT4 and it had the highest rev limit of any GEN 1/2 engine of 6412rpm. They did run roller rockers as the ball seat stamped rockers were galling above 6000rpm and GM designs for 200,000 mile durability nowdays. I wont pay $300 for a cover that you cant even see once installed, $20 plastic is good for me. Different strokes.
And here is the $25 distributer cover for Vortec V8 distributer use.
peace
Hog
Thanks for the info Hog!
Still working on my front cover solution- The marine cover won't work due to the short water pump I need for the Corvette and the diameter of the 4x reluctor.
Working on plan 'B' that utilizes the plastic from cover with a spacer thick enough to allow for the dual roller timing set. All I need is like an 1/8" to get it to fit without rubbing. I'll keep everyone posted on how that goes-
Elm
OK- It's been a while.
I'm starting to ramp-up for my EFI swap this winter.
The one thing I'm beating my head over is trying to find 12200411 pin-out diagrams for the 2001-2002 circa 4.3 V6 so I can compare them with the L31 V8.
My dilemma is over the Knock Sensors- I REALLY want to use flat response (2-wire) variety vs the resonant style.
I had a custom harness made but I believe the wrong pin-outs were used for the 2-wire sensor.
My harness has the Dark Blue wire at C1-51 and the Gray wire at C1-49. Of course, any diagram I've found so far for the L31 Express Van says C1-49 is unused but C1-51 is for the resonant type knock sensor and not the flat response.
From what I've pieced together so far surfing on-line is that the V6 using the flat response sensor uses C1-9 but I have no idea where the second wire goes-
It also appears that neither the L31 or the V6 uses dual knock sensors, regardless of type?
My question is where can I find an accurate wiring diagrams for both the L31 (2002) Express Van and a 2002 V6 Blazer with the 12200411?
I don't want to install anything until I validate all this wiring and have it 100% correct.
Any help or advice (other than don't use them :-) would be most appreciated.
Thank you!
Elm
pm me your email address
Now that I have the info I need (Thanks mecanicman!), here is an off the wall question:
Most of these flat response sensors only have an opening that accepts an 8mm bolt, which on a Gen I SBC is going to be a 5/16" bolt. Not a common bolt size in the block.
Is it possible to carefully machine the hole in the sensor to 10mm so it can accept a more readily accessible 3/8" bolt?
It looks like there is enough 'meat' on the sensor to do it safely.
Thoughts?
Thanks!
Elm
OK, it's been a while (I hate it when life gets in the way ;-) but I finally got everything together and fired up.. Well almost..
The car will fire and run for a few seconds and then die-
It almost acts like it's not getting enough fuel (40# injectors @ 58 PSI- Plenty of fuel for this engine).
I've got good spark (lights right up and runs smoothly for the few seconds it does run) but I don't know how to tell if the distributor is perfectly set since this is an aftermarket intake and the Vortec distributor doesn't allow for adjustment without modifying the clamp.
Now for the fun part, how do I troubleshoot something that only runs for a few seconds?
Are there any logs I can pull from the PCM to help point me in the right direction?
I started off with a 2002 L31 Express Van tune and modified it accordingly.
Sorry if this is a really basic question but I'm just trying to determine where to start with troubleshooting 101-
Any advice would be most appreciated.
Thank you!
Elm
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