Help with VE tables. Only been tuning for a week or so..

[dave w]

I data logged for a good hour straight today, and after like 30 minuets i went WOT, just figuring id delete them when i get into excel. So im attempting to clean up the mess of numbers, then see what i got. I think there good and the idle table was much better ill link up some stuff when im done. I smoothed the spark tables just a hair. And left them at that. I think for the most part im done with the part throttle and idle tuning for a while. They look good to me and its nice outside now but snow and cold is a comming in a few days, although it was 55 out today!!!

It seems the tuning you have done so far is getting you in dialed in? I've noticed your posts are more about tweaks in the tuning process. This is actually good news!

dave w

[fasteddi]

Heres the table of the values...for ave BLM. I think i should just leave them be till spring. They seem to be ok and im not positive i got all of those deacceleration blms numbers out. But 125.XX is ok right?? This is after i smothed the SA tables.

Ill add the idle ones in a few min just to see the average/

[fasteddi]

Heres the idle table.. a little off ..132 average.. but it wasnt pegged at 138-140 like it has been. Im liking the tuning process, exspecially when ya get results and can see how your chip makes a difference!

Is there a way to lock the idle so that it only idles in one VE cell??? Ive heard of doing something like that but im a littel confused.

[fasteddi]

It seems the tuning you have done so far is getting you in dialed in? I've noticed your posts are more about tweaks in the tuning process. This is actually good news!

dave w

Thanks dave! Well between you and mark i really am getting ahold of the tuning, and datalogging!

[fasteddi]

After sifting through all those ## in excel from the lastest log i was quite happy. I did have some changes but that was the longest log ive ever done, a good 45 minuets. Else then the deacceleration ##'s being really low 100blm or so, the others were good. I did finally see which cells i drive the most in as those ones were the ones that i dont have to change. The averages for about half the log was dot on 127~128!


Can anyone else confirm this question i have? Ive heard debate over it. Now when i deaccelerate the BLM's drop to 100~110. Is that my deacceration mode kicking in? Ive been told the BLM's should lock at 128 and that i should change those cells? I have never seen any such DFCO infromation in my $88 mask V6. I though that the low BLM's were like that because it is takeing out fuel because of the DFCO mode? Im just hearing 2 dif storys and i need to know if i should change those cells, which i already have the new #'s for. Gotta love excel!

[dave w]

I'm not sure how DFCO is programmed in $88. The only time I've needed to make adjustments for DFCO programming was when I was tuning a SBC 383. The problem I was having was with the 383 DFCO was an exhaust BACKFIRE at 35 MPH when decelerating from freeway speed. The backfire was so severe, a muffler could have been blown out!

With tuning, there are going to be debatable adjustments. I think I would play it safe, and half step the changes you have ready to go. For example if your changes are 10%, play it safe and only make a 5% change. Most times when I make a "safe" change, the data will show if I the change helps or not.

If you do an "average" of the new VE value you have ready with the old VE value, the average function will split the difference between the old VE and the new VE.

dave w

[fasteddi]

Ok dave thanks! Id rather play it safe too. Ill see what the dif. between the new and old VE's are.

[EagleMark]

I've been looking at your data logs and still don't understand DFCO in this mask, unless it's turned off! Then yes readings would be rich, that is what happened with carburators. My 7747 and LT1 both go lean BLM in DFCO... if $88 locks BLM at 128 in DFCO then your need to change DFCO settings... but you don't have any?

So find your DFCO cells and take out 10% fuel and see if they lean out?

[fasteddi]

I've been looking at your data logs and still don't understand DFCO in this mask, unless it's turned off! Then yes readings would be rich, that is what happened with carburators. My 7747 and LT1 both go lean BLM in DFCO... if $88 locks BLM at 128 in DFCO then your need to change DFCO settings... but you don't have any?

So find your DFCO cells and take out 10% fuel and see if they lean out?

Yea im lost in where the DFCO is in the mask too. Ill just take the fuel out a little at a time in certaint cells and see if that helps. What a weird mask. It actually like 40-45 degrees out again. Thankfully winter doesnt want to be here. So ill go test it here in a bit.

[fasteddi]

Ok I added 4# of spark in total today, the only time i got any reading of spark knock is when i shut the car off?? Is that ok? Im going to leave the SA Main table at that if so.

My idle is great(BLM 130.5 average from 0-3mph, and i had about 1500 cells to look at) I think the BLM of 130 average is good since it was alot colder today then the last time i datalogged, since i used those numbers to mod the tables. (35 and sunny today compared to 50 and sunny the other day) Ill hope that if it was 50 out those BLM's would have been lower. Also the BLM was steady!! Very steady! Int's were no more then 8 numbers difference. but mostly with in a few digits.

The thing that is driving me nuts is That no matter how much fuel I pull out when i cost, deaccelerate, the values stay low 110~112. Ive taken out 20% of fuel at one point and those numbers never changed. Truthfully im lost at why i cant budge those numbers. Im starting to dislike the $88 mask!!!

Overall though my idle numbers are great, timing is advanced more, smoothed out .55 and no knock, the Main BLM is great along with the Int.

Any off the wall ideas about the low BLM in deacceleration, i think im just gonna try to let that go and not drive me nuts for now!

[dave w]

Ok I added 4# of spark in total today, the only time i got any reading of spark knock is when i shut the car off?? Is that ok? Im going to leave the SA Main table at that if so.

My idle is great(BLM 130.5 average from 0-3mph, and i had about 1500 cells to look at) I think the BLM of 130 average is good since it was alot colder today then the last time i datalogged, since i used those numbers to mod the tables. (35 and sunny today compared to 50 and sunny the other day) Ill hope that if it was 50 out those BLM's would have been lower. Also the BLM was steady!! Very steady! Int's were no more then 8 numbers difference. but mostly with in a few digits.

The thing that is driving me nuts is That no matter how much fuel I pull out when i cost, deaccelerate, the values stay low 110~112. Ive taken out 20% of fuel at one point and those numbers never changed. Truthfully im lost at why i cant budge those numbers. Im starting to dislike the $88 mask!!!

Overall though my idle numbers are great, timing is advanced more, smoothed out .55 and no knock, the Main BLM is great along with the Int.

Any off the wall ideas about the low BLM in deacceleration, i think im just gonna try to let that go and not drive me nuts for now!

I think I might retard only the 400 RPM timing cells about 1 ~ 2 ~3 maybe 4 degrees to see if the knock at shut off goes away? I'm wondering if the knock at shut off is really more like a gas engine trying to "Diesel" when your shutting off the engine? With fuel injection it's not very likely there is gas pooled in the intake to keep the engine dieseling for any length of time. Carburetor engine will diesel for several seconds, even longer when the timing is advanced to much.

I think it's OK to stop working on the deceleration for now. Maybe in a near the future you can revisit the DFCO?

dave w

[fasteddi]

I think I might retard only the 400 RPM timing cells about 1 ~ 2 ~3 maybe 4 degrees to see if the knock at shut off goes away? I'm wondering if the knock at shut off is really more like a gas engine trying to "Diesel" when your shutting off the engine? With fuel injection it's not very likely there is gas pooled in the intake to keep the engine dieseling for any length of time. Carburetor engine will diesel for several seconds, even longer when the timing is advanced to much.

I think it's OK to stop working on the deceleration for now. Maybe in a near the future you can revisit the DFCO?

dave w

Ok ill go ahead and retard the low RPM a little, 2# at first, and see if that stops the Knock at shut off.

Yea i think im done with the DFCO for a bit! Before i start to mess up the tables....

[EagleMark]

I found a few things missing from your adx so I did a little more work on it. You will now know when you are in idle! Or Off Idle!

The reason your DFCO cells are rich is because you never enter DFCO? Found it in the ALDL so I put it in adx... Until someone that knows how to enter these values in xdf I don't know how you would fix that, or how it got turned off?

You also never got any knock on 7thchip.xdl... cause now you have a knock history table...

EDIT: Also put Code numbers on the words so you know what's what...

[fasteddi]

Thanks for the revised adx table. I did take out 4* timing in the 400 rpm area, the knock is gone, but i did also re-activate the EGR and the CCP. I was told to disable them for editing VE tables After the changes the BLM's are leaner? Exspecially when at crusing speeds?

I just played back my latest log, i did have .3 -1.05 knock retard in the 100kpa cell from 2k to 4.5 k rpms. Thanks to your adx file! I love that file alot better!!!! Should i just take out 1* in ever cell except take 2* in the ones that were higher then 1* retard? That was a quck WOT to see if it did knock..

[1leg]

Just finished reading this thread, , My wife has been a drag racer widow, Camping widow and a fishing widow. I wonder how she will feel becoming EFI widow.

I learned a lot just reading this thread. thanks for all the effort you guys did to help Fasteddi