Ready to start collecting parts for GM ECM in toyota 4runner

[jim_in_dorris]

1project2many,

I probably worded that wrong last night. What I thought I would do is use the Memcal from the quad4 with a $32B prom from a camaro 5.0 TPI. The 32B code has code for 8 - 6 - 4 - and 2 cylinders in the calibration. Set to 4 cylinder, it might be close, since the cylinder volume is close. and external ESC would be no problem either. I am not sure how I can tell what type of VSS the aftermarket VSS's I found are, nothing in the description. Do you mean the reed type output a squarewave and the A/c output is a sine wave? I will look at the 32B code to see if the pulse count can be adjusted. Also, on another note, apparently some newer OEM O2 sensors are wideband, and my son has some used ones laying around at work, so if they are indeed a wideband O2 sensor, we are snagging a couple to use for tuning.


>>>edit<<<< just looked it up, the 7165 used a 2 pulse DC square wave VSS. now I just have to figure out how to adapt one inline to a toyota speedo cable.

[1project2many]

There's no need to use the quad4 memcal if you're using an external ESC module. We can modify any memcal to work.

Do you mean the reed type output a squarewave

The aftermarket often applies the term "reed switch" to any speed sensor that produces a 0 - X Volt square wave signal.

and the A/c output is a sine wave?

Yes, A/C is a sine wave. The other type of speed sensor is constructed similar to a distributor pickup coil and shaft and is known as an "analog" sensor.

There are multiple speed sensor inputs in most of the ecm's including the 7165. One expects a square wave 2k pulse per mile on the "optical" input. One expects an A/C signal which can be more than 2k pulses per mile.

Wideband O2 sensors require a driver circuit to operate correctly. The sensor driver will maintain a specific level of heat across the sensor by varying current through the sensor. The amount of current relates to the AFR. The stock gm ecm does not provide this functionality.

If the Toyota cable uses "standard" speedometer threads then you can find an inline VSS which sandwiches between cable and speedometer.

[Six_Shooter]

Many people that have '7165 swap to a '7730 to improve their tuning experiences, if that means anything to you.

Common issues are ALDL not connecting, regardless of resistor use (10K) or PC re-starts, software restarts, etc. Also it's commonly reported that comms will randomly drop out while driving along, by people using the '7165.

In a conversion, this ECM would be very near the bottom of my list to use.

Why do you want to use a MAF sensor?

I'm not sure you understand what the MEMCAL does, or contains, due to the way you want to mix and match parts. The PROM is part of the MEMCAL, so trying to use a $32 PROM with a Quad4 MEMCAL (Weren't most of those $58?) is counter productive, since you want to tune it anyway. I'm not sure the LHM or RFD circuitry will work with the '7165 ECM correctly either. It's better to use a MEMCAL that would have been used in the ECM you are using, to keep variables to a minimum.

If you do indeed have an OEM WBO2 sensor, they are useless without a controller. In OEM applications that use WBO2 sensors, the controller is part of the PCM itself, in retrofit applications, such as we as tuners do, an external controller is needed. At this point it's just better to buy an entire package, controller and sensor, since you know that the sensor will be new, and that the controller matched to it. I am fond of the 14point7.com products.

I adapted an optical VSS to my Datsun speedo. I did have to change to a later Datsun speedo, to have the correct hardware to function with the optical sensor that is looking for a pulsed reflection. I don't believe the pictures are online anymore, but I'll try and get them back up again to show one way of adding a VSS. Basically, I copied what many mid and late '80s GM vehicles had, especially the S-series, that had an optical VSS in the speedo itself and reflected off two arms that are part of the speedo mechanicals to provide a VSS signal to the ECM. I did have to set the BIN file to recognize the type of sensor though.

If there is a later version of the transmission, that has an electronic VSS, you might be able to slip that VSS into your trans to get a VSS signal, though this usually also means that the speedo itself needs to be changed to an electronic unit. If I knew then what I know now, I probably would have used a later VSS from an RB trans that will fit in my trans to get a VR type VSS signal, and then changed my speedo to match.

[jim_in_dorris]

Well, I guess I need to rethink this, as everyone giving me help indicates that speed density is a better way to go. I have speed density on my TBI truck and have looked at that code a lot. I guess I can convince my son that SD is the way to go if we want to proceed with the conversion. We will just need to make certain that it looks like a stock setup if somebody looks under the hood. Stupid, as it will definitely be a clean running vehicle. I am aware that the OEM wideband O2's will need an external controller, and IIRC there is an inexpensive DIY controller available that we could use. I'm just cheap and broke, so anything I can get free I am willing to try. If it doesn't work, nothing lost. The memcal choice was because of Knock sensors, but because the 165 used external knock I would have used a regular memcal. I think if I go to a speed density system, I will have a lot less problems. I can pick up something like a 730 or 727 for $50 or so, and then worry about the other parts. The other reason I looked at a 165 was because I could get one for free. You guys have pretty much convinced me that I should drop that concept and go with a 730 or 727. I guess I need to start looking at what mask to use next. Thanks to all of you for your patience. Believe me I appreciate it. This is an experiment, and probably not something I will repeat.

[1project2many]

From a performance standpoint I believe MAF is fine. That engine isn't going to suffer from the choice and other than potentially having to adjust a bunch of variables initially, the MAF tuning process is likely to be quicker. But you're still restricted to using a GM MAF sensor which will need to look like a stock Yota sensor. I've worked with both vehicles enough to know the Delco sensor does not look like its Denso counterpart so you've got some work to do. The SD system can be hidden more easily by using a late model MAP sensor and mounting it somewhere under the plenum out of sight. It's ironic to think you could swap in 1990 TPI complete and it would be ok, but using the controller for the same system could get you into trouble.

I'm not sure what a "regular" memcal is. The 7165 memcal has no knock filter on board so you are able to use almost anything imo. Check bore sizes. Maybe a 3.8 V6 or a 2.5 matches the bore. Or maybe there's a version of the Q4 that uses a KS of the correct resistance for the external box.

In short, if you have access to the 7165 and related parts for short money then use it. But if you have to buy the parts then I'd recommend the SD system.

I've done much of my tuning without a WB sensor. I believe that anyone who's successfully tuned a carby engine can tune an EFI system to a reasonable level. I'm just as responsible as anyone else for making the world think the only way to tune is with a WB. "Back in the day" we'd almost yell at people for thinking they know what AFR is being delivered during open loop or WOT conditions. "The only way to tell is with a WB." Well, that got turned into "the only way to tune is with a WB" which is just not true. Your NB sensor switches at stoichiometric AFR so you tune for that first. Do the steady state and low speed tuning first using closed loop. The go after the open loop stuff. Force OL and adjust the desired AFR tables or the % change to AFR tables. You can still use the NB readings to tell you if it's rich or lean. You just won't know the actual AFR. Tune for lean best power by starting rich and reducing fuel a little at a time. Believe me, I've logged many hours tuning with no WB on board.

There are several versions of WB sensor. I know of at least two NTK types and two Bosch types. The controller must match the sensor. I may be able to help ID the sensor once you get it.

[jim_in_dorris]

Okay, I think we are going to go SD, and just hide it. The 7730 ECM looks good, we can do that. I assume that AUJP is the code to use, but can't find anything about manual trannys and AUJP, is it not a good idea to use AUJP with a manual? I just scanned the AUJP disassembly, but can't find any settings for manual trans. (only a quick scan however) I got offered an 8051 out of a 95 firechicken, but will pass as I don't want to deal with optispark and all the other stuff it does.

[RobertISaar]

22RE = 91.9mm bore.

quad4 = 92mm bore.

i'd say that's a pretty nice match for the knock filter.