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Thread: Wide Band O2 / Narrow Band Combo?

  1. #1
    Electronic Ignition!
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    Wide Band O2 / Narrow Band Combo?

    Application: Marine 350CID
    PCM = 16168625

    Hello All,

    Been trying to tune this application and determined that I need Wide Band O2 data. I have cut/drilled/tapped the water cooled manifold for the narrow band O2 last year when I installed the new engine and TBI. Now I need better data. Is there anyone that has experience is using a 0-5V WBO2 and also utilized same device to deliver the Narrow band info to the computer using the same bung and one sensor? Just trying to save some money and time to install another bung...it would be a pain in the %&$.

    Your thoughts are appreciated.

    -Fallflight

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Six_Shooter's Avatar
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    There seems to be an even split on using the NB sim outputs of WBO2 sensors.

    Personally, I have not used the NB sim output on any of my WBO2 sensors.

    I know Fasteddi is using the NB sim from his 14point7.com SLC_DIY in his Camaro, and likes it.

    I use an SLC_DIY for tuning other people's cars, I will swap my LC-1 to an SLC at some point.
    The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.

  3. #3
    RIP EagleMark's Avatar
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    I have an Innovate LC-1 WB and don't like simulated, just makes tuning weird, easier to tune with WB Open Loop to get good fuel VE tables. Dial them in to 13/14 to 1 and leave the boat OL.

    I'd like to see how you machined that intake for O2? You seem to be having issues, wonder if it is just cooling off the O2 sensor because of the water cooled exhaust? Or a heated O2 would help? I've always done boats OL.

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  4. #4
    Fuel Injected! JeepsAndGuns's Avatar
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    I have a innovate MTX-L and love it. I actually swapped to feeding my pcm with the simulated NB output a few weeks ago. I have since found my AFR stays much closer to where it should be, all around its better. IDK if my old nb was just going out or what, but I was about to replace it and I figured I would try the simulated for the heck of it, just to see how it did. Now I am wondering if I have any reason to swap back to a nb.
    79 Jeep Cherokee, AMC 401, T-18 manual trans, hydroboost, 16197427 MPFI system---the toy

    93 Jeep YJ Wrangler, 4.0L, 5 speed, 8.8 rear, homebrew hub conversion and big brakes, hydroboost, 2.5in OME lift, 31x10.50's---the daily driver

    99 Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee limited, 4.0L, auto, 2wd, leather and power everything, 99% stock---the long distance highway ride.

  5. #5
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    I'm wondering if anyone has feedback they would like to share about the Innovative LC-1 http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc1.php and http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/s...C-1_Manual.pdf

    Videos
    http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/video/LC-101/sniffer_content.html


    I see Amazon has a what looks like a fair price? http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000CO7TXK/...hvptwo=&hvqmt=

    dave w
    Last edited by dave w; 07-01-2012 at 03:21 AM.

  6. #6
    RIP EagleMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave w View Post
    I'm wondering if anyone has feedback they would like to share about the Innovative LC-1

    dave w
    It works well! But very hard to wire in, it's like the middle is missing. If I had to do it again I like the MTX JeepsandGuns has because it will data log with gauge. Or Dynamic EFI...

    Here's what I ended up doing with my LC-1, wired to Moates O-Meter, velcro to AutoProm for use together or seperate.
    http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...Band-O2-Sensor

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
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  7. #7
    Fuel Injected! gregs78cam's Avatar
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    I did not have good luck using the simulated NB output on my LM-1. The PCM kept commanding less fuel which resulted in very noticable lean spikes while cruising . Went to UN-heated NBO2 and they went away. Will be putting in heated NBO2 some day.
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  8. #8
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EagleMark View Post
    It works well! But very hard to wire in, it's like the middle is missing. If I had to do it again I like the MTX JeepsandGuns has because it will data log with gauge. Or Dynamic EFI...

    Here's what I ended up doing with my LC-1, wired to Moates O-Meter, velcro to AutoProm for use together or seperate.
    http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...Band-O2-Sensor
    Mark,
    Thanks for the feedback. I am thinking the LC1 could do "Double Duty" as fallflight is requesting. A WBO2 that provides both a simulated NB for the 16168625 PCM and provide the same 16168625 PCM (with modifications) WBO2 0v ~ 5v to the EGR Pittle valve for data logging?

    dave w

  9. #9
    RIP EagleMark's Avatar
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    Yup! But the simulated narrow band results have been less then ideal, same as gregs78cam, I've found OL tuning better off the WB.

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
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  10. #10
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EagleMark View Post
    Yup! But the simulated narrow band results have been less then ideal, same as gregs78cam, I've found OL tuning better off the WB.
    I've had similar experience using simulated Narrow Band results. I'll look at the MTX-L.

    dave w

  11. #11
    Fuel Injected! JeepsAndGuns's Avatar
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    Right now I have my MTX-L feeding both the NB input on the pcm, and the egr pintle for WB datalogging.
    Only thing is the data log dash doesnt read correctly, as I need to reprogram that output to what it needs to see. Only problem is that it only comes with a serial cable to program, and my computer does not have one of those ports. And I refuse to pay the $40-$50 for a usb adapter to use only one time. Why in the hell does a company like innovate use the outdated serial cable, why oh why dont they join the rest of the world and use a usb cable?

    Other than that, I love it. So much in fact, that I will be buying another one to install in my wrangler.
    79 Jeep Cherokee, AMC 401, T-18 manual trans, hydroboost, 16197427 MPFI system---the toy

    93 Jeep YJ Wrangler, 4.0L, 5 speed, 8.8 rear, homebrew hub conversion and big brakes, hydroboost, 2.5in OME lift, 31x10.50's---the daily driver

    99 Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee limited, 4.0L, auto, 2wd, leather and power everything, 99% stock---the long distance highway ride.

  12. #12
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeepsAndGuns View Post
    Right now I have my MTX-L feeding both the NB input on the pcm, and the egr pintle for WB datalogging.
    Only thing is the data log dash doesnt read correctly, as I need to reprogram that output to what it needs to see. Only problem is that it only comes with a serial cable to program, and my computer does not have one of those ports. And I refuse to pay the $40-$50 for a usb adapter to use only one time. Why in the hell does a company like innovate use the outdated serial cable, why oh why dont they join the rest of the world and use a usb cable?

    Other than that, I love it. So much in fact, that I will be buying another one to install in my wrangler.
    JeepsAndGuns,
    Thanks for the feedback on the MTX-L. I 100% agree with the USB vs Serial cable! I looked at the MTX-L manual webpage: http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/s...Manual_1.1.pdf very helpful.

    dave w

  13. #13
    Super Moderator Six_Shooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeepsAndGuns View Post
    Right now I have my MTX-L feeding both the NB input on the pcm, and the egr pintle for WB datalogging.
    Only thing is the data log dash doesnt read correctly, as I need to reprogram that output to what it needs to see. Only problem is that it only comes with a serial cable to program, and my computer does not have one of those ports. And I refuse to pay the $40-$50 for a usb adapter to use only one time. Why in the hell does a company like innovate use the outdated serial cable, why oh why dont they join the rest of the world and use a usb cable?

    Other than that, I love it. So much in fact, that I will be buying another one to install in my wrangler.
    The serial connection of my LC-1 is what caused me to sell one of my LC1s (Will be selling the other at some point), and replace it with a 14point7.com SLC_DIY, it also has a multitude of other (datalogging) features that the Innovate hardware doesn't have without additional components.

    I've never understood why people complain about a product, but then in the last sentence say "But I will be buying another..."
    The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.

  14. #14
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six_Shooter View Post
    The serial connection of my LC-1 is what caused me to sell one of my LC1s (Will be selling the other at some point), and replace it with a 14point7.com SLC_DIY, it also has a multitude of other (datalogging) features that the Innovate hardware doesn't have without additional components.

    I've never understood why people complain about a product, but then in the last sentence say "But I will be buying another..."
    I think there is a back-order on the 14point7.com SLC_DIY until August?

    dave w

  15. #15
    Super Moderator Six_Shooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave w View Post
    I think there is a back-order on the 14point7.com SLC_DIY until August?

    dave w
    It's worth the wait.
    The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.

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