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Thread: Man with hammer needs help.

  1. #1
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    Man with hammer needs help.

    Hello all.
    The first thing you need to know is how hopeless I am with computing. I'm a mechanical engineer with a hammer and computing really taxes me. But, I'm trying to get Tuner Pro to a point where I can hook it up to my 1999 C2500 5.7 Vortec Suburban - firstly as a scan tool (and the infamous cam sensor calibration) and later maybe some tuning (I'm running with LPG/propane so more advanced ignition timing could be of use). I'm so ignorant of computing that I don't even know which part of the forum I should post my question in so I'll ask it here.

    I have previously had Delphi software to scan a smart and getting all that sorted I needed lots of help. Same again for the Suburban.
    I've been getting a lot of help from a guy on the GMT400 forum and wouldn't be as far down the line with this without his help. So far, he's helped me find the BIN, .xdf and .ads files. But apparently I need the .ads file on Tuner Pro and that's done via the 'acquisitions' button which I don't have. It's suggested that a file went missing during install hence no 'acquisitions' button. I've re-loaded it several times and it's still the same (on W8.1 it shows 'missing MSVCR120.dll' but when copied to a W7 laptop (the one I'll be using) no such pop-up).

    What do I do next to gain the 'acquisitions' button? And once I have it, how do I get .ads from the W8.1 laptop to the W7 one without it being connected to the internet? So far I've just been copying files over on a memory stick but .ads doesn't appear compatible with that.
    TIA - and please please realise I am not just joking about my lack of computing abilities - I really am worse that you can imagine.

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    The 1999 C2500 5.7 liter is OBD2. I'm unaware if anyone has developed an OBD2 .ads file (data stream) for TunerPro RT.

    Possibly the OBD2 information on ALDLCable.com will help: http://aldlcable.com/allinone.asp

    dave w

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    Quote Originally Posted by dave w View Post


    The 1999 C2500 5.7 liter is OBD2. I'm unaware if anyone has developed an OBD2 .ads file (data stream) for TunerPro RT.

    Possibly the OBD2 information on ALDLCable.com will help: http://aldlcable.com/allinone.asp

    dave w

    Thanks.
    Strangely enough, I had a look at an ELM327 cable I already have this morning - and the disc with the software. Maybe it's that that I should try.

    It was suggested that 'ads.99' here >> http://www.gearhead-efi.com/gearhead-efi/def/ads/ was what I needed. Then the lack of 'acquisitions' button became apparent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinger View Post
    Thanks.
    Strangely enough, I had a look at an ELM327 cable I already have this morning - and the disc with the software. Maybe it's that that I should try.

    It was suggested that 'ads.99' here >> http://www.gearhead-efi.com/gearhead-efi/def/ads/ was what I needed. Then the lack of 'acquisitions' button became apparent.
    I understand the confusion, there is an OBD1 $99 definition: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...Information-99

    dave w

  5. #5
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    Depending on the elm327 variant you have, it can be verrrrrry slow. For my generic crapola I use https://www.obdlink.com/ they have different varieties depending on the connection you want. I prefer a cable every time over wireless but I'm old school so I use the SX USB version to my laptop and ebay dudes have it for under $40 if my memory is correct.
    -Carl

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    Hi.

    I have the same vehicle. I have a couple of .ads definition files that I use for Tunerpro OBDII datalogging. I believe they could use improvement but I can collect fairly basic information which is useful for tuning.

    I am unsure how to view the coveted timing offset value. In our scan tool it is accessed through a special test function menu. I can attempt to look through the GM data info to see if I can figure out how to view this value.

    I will clean up the definition files tonight or tomorrow am and post them to this thread.

    For anyone who is more familiar with Tunerpro, don't the definition files contain headers which are specific to the type of cable? I have an AVL cable so does that mean the file will not work with the ELM cable without modification?

    Edit: There are different files for ELM and AVL cables. I will attempt to edit an ELM cable to work with the black box. In the mean time, one of the attached files may provide some data.


    I've been getting a lot of help from a guy on the GMT400 forum and wouldn't be as far down the line with this without his help. So far, he's helped me find the BIN, .xdf and .ads files. But apparently I need the .ads file on Tuner Pro and that's done via the 'acquisitions' button which I don't have. It's suggested that a file went missing during install hence no 'acquisitions' button. I've re-loaded it several times and it's still the same (on W8.1 it shows 'missing MSVCR120.dll' but when copied to a W7 laptop (the one I'll be using) no such pop-up).
    I believe there are a number of small things to check and / or clarify in regards to this paragraph. You probably have the right stuff but the last thing you want is to accidentally use the wrong file or get instructions that don't match what you're working with.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by In-Tech View Post
    Depending on the elm327 variant you have, it can be verrrrrry slow. For my generic crapola I use https://www.obdlink.com/ they have different varieties depending on the connection you want. I prefer a cable every time over wireless but I'm old school so I use the SX USB version to my laptop and ebay dudes have it for under $40 if my memory is correct.
    I've not totally decided on whether the ELM327 is what I'll use. I also have this Delphi >> https://www.wish.com/product/5e7d9e2..._BwE&share=web sort of thing which I set up on the W7 laptop for diagnostics on the smart but it doesn't read the Chevrolet very well.
    For diagnostic I think I'd prefer laptop and lead. Tempted though (especially given my weakness with computers) to go BlueTooth and something like TorquePro but that to my mind is more like extra gauges on the dash than true diagnostics.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post
    Hi.

    I have the same vehicle. I have a couple of .ads definition files that I use for Tunerpro OBDII datalogging. I believe they could use improvement but I can collect fairly basic information which is useful for tuning.

    I am unsure how to view the coveted timing offset value. In our scan tool it is accessed through a special test function menu. I can attempt to look through the GM data info to see if I can figure out how to view this value.

    I will clean up the definition files tonight or tomorrow am and post them to this thread.

    For anyone who is more familiar with Tunerpro, don't the definition files contain headers which are specific to the type of cable? I have an AVL cable so does that mean the file will not work with the ELM cable without modification?

    Edit: There are different files for ELM and AVL cables. I will attempt to edit an ELM cable to work with the black box. In the mean time, one of the attached files may provide some data.




    I believe there are a number of small things to check and / or clarify in regards to this paragraph. You probably have the right stuff but the last thing you want is to accidentally use the wrong file or get instructions that don't match what you're working with.
    Hello again - and thanks for helping me get registered here.
    A couple of things I didn't mention but should - and they are interconnected. I am in Scotland. I am absolutely paranoid about damaging (in any way!) the PCM on my truck. Because, being in Scotland the chances of me obtaining another PCM on a timescale compatible with what the truck is needed for is a big fat zero. So, given that you have the same truck is me I'm going to post links to the files I've installed already and ask that you check them for suitability. Some I found, others were suggested.

    My truck PCM has the following markings:
    0936065 CMUD
    86CMUD3491631JOQ
    SERV.NO 16263494

    Installed on laptop(s):
    TunerPro V500 9252
    BIN >> http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...rPro-Bin-Files last post, first on list ''1999 5.7 4L80E 2500 stock.bin ''.
    and, an '8CYL' BIN which I can't remember where it came from (or why) but does work as a 'comparator'.
    XDF >> http://www.gearhead-efi.com/gearhead-efi/def/xdf/ 23'rd from the bottom ''99.xdf''.

    This allowed me to open TP and nosy around the 'parameters'. To hook up to the truck and read diagnostics I'm told I need .adx file and told to look here >> http://www.gearhead-efi.com/gearhead-efi/def/ads/ and get the 25th on the list one ''99.ads''. I was also linked to the instructions page and it's at that point the absence of 'acquisitions' button became apparent. Having been spoon fed to this point I am now stuck!

    Re laptops and 'missing MSVCR120.dll'.
    Main work laptop is W8.1 and it's on it that the 'missing MSVCR120.dll' pop-up happens. When I 'OK' that pop-up, TP opens.
    The laptop I'll be using with the truck runs W7 (chosen for compatibility with LPG software) and no 'missing MSVCR120.dll' pop-up with it. Given it never appears on the laptop I intend using, does this need to be remedied or just ignored?

    So, that's where I've got to so far. What do I do next? Is what I'm using (BINs etc) correct. Of the two cables I have, which should I focus on or should I be considering another (bear in mind availability in UK)? To identify the Delphi interface (referred to in previous post) what should I be looking for in the way of markings?

    I've not looked at the three .adx you've posted yet. Are they cable related/enabling.

    TIA and once more, you cannot overestimate my lack of computing knowledge and you cannot insult me by explaining things very s-l-o-w-l-y!
    Cheers!
    Last edited by Pinger; 2 Weeks Ago at 05:44 PM.

  9. #9
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    I don't blame you for being cautious with your pcm. You're a long way from the inexpensive used replacements I have access to. You really should have a spare even if it does have to be shipped on a slow boat. Maybe we can figure out a way to get a replacement on its way to you.

    The .bin extension on your files indicates they were saved in binary format. The values constituting your calibration are read in sequential order. Each number read from the computer is saved as the same number and in the same order as it was read. There are many other formats but you need .bin file to use with Tunerpro.

    The .bin file you are using from this forum is from '99 and is used in the same pcm that you have. This file was originally used with a two wheel drive truck ("C" series) with 5.7 liter engine and 4L80E transmission. This is an updated calibration which was released to address intermittent idle surging. If you upload the "V8 Bin" file then I can see if a VIN number was saved with the file and attempt to get more vehicle information.

    I am unable to determine your vehicle details from the information you posted. If your vehicle has a 4L60E then you will need a 4L60E based calibration. If your vehicle was not required to meet North American vehicle emissions standards then the file you downloaded may not be appropriate. But with no others to view these will be a good start.

    An .xdf file is used by Tunerpro to translate the vehicle calibration software into human readable data. An .xdf will have, among many items, the location and size of spark timing table within the calibration file. It will also contain any required math to convert spark timing values from the calibration into timing values that make sense to a person. Your file, 99.xdf, does not appear to be for a model year 1999 truck. Instead it appears to be for an OBDI vehicle which uses a "Mask ID" of $99. Prior to OBDII files the calibrations were often grouped by Mask ID since any vehicle using the same mask could use the same definition file. The Mask ID is not used to identify most OBDII calibrations.

    However, the main issue is to enable Tunepro to work as a scan tool. The .bin files are vehicle calibration files. They may work with your vehicle but you do not need either of these files to view and record engine running paramaters. You only need the correct .adx file. Older versions of Tunerpro used ADS files which can be loaded into Tunerpro then saved as ADX files. Unfortunately the 99.ADS file does not appear to be '99 model year vehicle. Instead, it is also from an OBDI equipped vehicle which uses a pacm with the $99 mask.

    The files I uploaded are cable specific. I use an AVL cable and I have no experience trying to make an ELM cable work. I would suggest trying the ELM identified cable then reporting on whether or not you are able connect connect to the vehicle computer and whether or not you can view data. It's fairly easy to make change to the ADX file and I could illustrate how its done if the ELM cable is not showing data that you need. Unfortunately I am still having trouble getting the pcm in mine to show all the data I would like to see. The pcm does not appear to respond to some of the data requests. Although its a work in progress.

    The Delphi interface cable would have a USB or Serial Port end and would have a larger area where electronics are contained. If it has a simple cable with no area for electronics then it is not going to work with the ELM or AVL definition files.

    Please ask as many questions as you need to get this. If I haven't explained anything well enough then please feel free to ask again.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post
    I don't blame you for being cautious with your pcm. You're a long way from the inexpensive used replacements I have access to. You really should have a spare even if it does have to be shipped on a slow boat. Maybe we can figure out a way to get a replacement on its way to you.
    This is something I could ask about on GMT400 forum. Presumably, it would have to be one from a truck identical to mine - yes? Any idea (ballpark figure) what the change hands for ($)?


    Quote Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post
    The .bin extension on your files indicates they were saved in binary format. The values constituting your calibration are read in sequential order. Each number read from the computer is saved as the same number and in the same order as it was read. There are many other formats but you need .bin file to use with Tunerpro.

    The .bin file you are using from this forum is from '99 and is used in the same pcm that you have. This file was originally used with a two wheel drive truck ("C" series) with 5.7 liter engine and 4L80E transmission. This is an updated calibration which was released to address intermittent idle surging. If you upload the "V8 Bin" file then I can see if a VIN number was saved with the file and attempt to get more vehicle information.
    I've tried to upload the 8cyl bin file as attachment - don't know if that has worked. Ditto the C2500 one.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post
    I am unable to determine your vehicle details from the information you posted. If your vehicle has a 4L60E then you will need a 4L60E based calibration. If your vehicle was not required to meet North American vehicle emissions standards then the file you downloaded may not be appropriate. But with no others to view these will be a good start.
    Mine is a 1999 C2500 5.7l Vortec with 4L80E, 8660lbs GVW and 4.10:1 axle. Emission info I have is:
    NA4 EMISSION SYSTEM, ABOVE 8500 LB GVW
    NF2 EMISSION SYSTEM, FEDERAL TIER 1
    NG1 EMISSION GEOGRAPHICALLY RESTRICTED CERTIFICATION



    Quote Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post
    An .xdf file is used by Tunerpro to translate the vehicle calibration software into human readable data. An .xdf will have, among many items, the location and size of spark timing table within the calibration file. It will also contain any required math to convert spark timing values from the calibration into timing values that make sense to a person. Your file, 99.xdf, does not appear to be for a model year 1999 truck. Instead it appears to be for an OBDI vehicle which uses a "Mask ID" of $99. Prior to OBDII files the calibrations were often grouped by Mask ID since any vehicle using the same mask could use the same definition file. The Mask ID is not used to identify most OBDII calibrations.
    That makes sense because some of what I'm seeing doesn't make sense!
    Eg, this

    0.00 -28.13 -28.13 -24.61 0.00 -28.13 -28.13 -24.61 0.00 -28.13 -28.13 -24.61 0.00 -28.13 -28.13

    which is from the Main Spark Advance vs RPM vs Load table and is the line corresponding to 4000 rpm, load values between 35 and 100%. I'd be expecting something more linear than those values. Is this a sign that I have the wrong .xdf file? Where do I find the correct one? Is there one for OBD11?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post
    However, the main issue is to enable Tunepro to work as a scan tool. The .bin files are vehicle calibration files. They may work with your vehicle but you do not need either of these files to view and record engine running paramaters. You only need the correct .adx file. Older versions of Tunerpro used ADS files which can be loaded into Tunerpro then saved as ADX files. Unfortunately the 99.ADS file does not appear to be '99 model year vehicle. Instead, it is also from an OBDI equipped vehicle which uses a pacm with the $99 mask.

    I think I've jumped on wanting diagnostics because I see it mentioned so often on GMT 400 - and because I equate the cam offset and opening ABS valves for bleeding with that. The latter two are higher priorities (given pending work on the truck) than diagnostics as as far as I know there's nothing needing diagnosing right now. The tuning aspect would be for ignition timing tweaking as LPG could take more timing but I'm not ready for that yet - still optimising the LPG system.

    So where I seem to be is I have appropriate bin files, the wrong .xdf file and no .adx file (or the 'acquisition' button to load one) with the possibility that the latter two don't exist for OBD11?
    (If this helps - from memory, when I hooked up the Delphi software to the truck I think it read TPS in real time but not much more. That Delphi software though when connected to my OBD11 smart was capable of all sorts - eg, clutch, gearbox re-teaches etc - quite comprehensive but not with the Suburban).




    Quote Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post
    The files I uploaded are cable specific. I use an AVL cable and I have no experience trying to make an ELM cable work. I would suggest trying the ELM identified cable then reporting on whether or not you are able connect connect to the vehicle computer and whether or not you can view data. It's fairly easy to make change to the ADX file and I could illustrate how its done if the ELM cable is not showing data that you need. Unfortunately I am still having trouble getting the pcm in mine to show all the data I would like to see. The pcm does not appear to respond to some of the data requests. Although its a work in progress.

    The Delphi interface cable would have a USB or Serial Port end and would have a larger area where electronics are contained. If it has a simple cable with no area for electronics then it is not going to work with the ELM or AVL definition files.
    The Delphi cable has a huge box on it so not just a cable. The ELM327 cable also has a (less bulky) box. It is marked OBD11 but the accompanying disc has ELM327 (and other) software which has to be un-zipped. Both cables are USB.
    I'm not understanding the three (adx?) files you provided. Are they the .adx files I thought I didn't have or specifically for getting cables to work? Whatever they are, I can't do anything (other than 'save as links') with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post
    Please ask as many questions as you need to get this. If I haven't explained anything well enough then please feel free to ask again.
    Thanks - appreciated.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Pinger; 1 Week Ago at 07:31 PM.

  11. #11
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    This is something I could ask about on GMT400 forum. Presumably, it would have to be one from a truck identical to mine - yes? Any idea (ballpark figure) what the change hands for ($)?
    I have spare parts here which I do not need. I do not want to send them off as junk because they are still good. But they are occupying valuable shelf space and need to go. If we could determine the cost to ship them I would be happy to send them out for exactly that amount. Oh, and maybe some advice in case I ever follow up on my threat to visit the country of my father's ancestors.

    I've tried to upload the 8cyl bin file as attachment - don't know if that has worked. Ditto the C2500 one.
    They appear to have uploaded correctly. I will attempt to view them and provide the results in a subsequent post.

    So where I seem to be is I have appropriate bin files, the wrong .xdf file and no .adx file (or the 'acquisition' button to load one) with the possibility that the latter two don't exist for OBD11?
    You have appropriate bin files, the wrong .xdf file, and the wrong .adx file. There may be an .xdf file available (I will attempt to locate one tonight). There are some .adx files that will work depending on cable type. The biggest issue is that I suspect you may have the wrong version of Tunerpro.


    I think I've jumped on wanting diagnostics because I see it mentioned so often on GMT 400 - and because I equate the cam offset and opening ABS valves for bleeding with that. The latter two are higher priorities (given pending work on the truck) than diagnostics as as far as I know there's nothing needing diagnosing right now. The tuning aspect would be for ignition timing tweaking as LPG could take more timing but I'm not ready for that yet - still optimising the LPG system.
    Ahhh... yes. I do not know if the data stream will provide the information for cam offset. There are commercial scanners which do not provide that data so it may not be easy to get to. But I believe I might be able to use my computer and the shop's scantool to record the commands to view the data. Unfortunately I am certain the data stream file does not allow one to command the ABS valves open. While ABS valves are controlled by the ABS module, the pcm datastream file only contains commands for the pcm. Although it may exist I do not know of an ABS file for our trucks.

    I'm not understanding the three (adx?) files you provided. Are they the .adx files I thought I didn't have or specifically for getting cables to work? Whatever they are, I can't do anything (other than 'save as links') with them.
    At least one of those files will allow Tunerpro R/T to communicate with a 1999 Suburban. In order to use an adx or ads file you need to have Tunerpro R/T. Tunerpro R/T is also free to download and evaluate. Tunerpro R/T allows connection to a vehicle in Real Time which is what reading the ALDL involves. In order to use Tunerpro R/T to datalog files you first load the .adx file from the acquisition menu. This is similar to loading an .xdf file from the XDF menu. I can post some pictures later for guidance. Once we have confirmed you have the correct version of Tunerpro and that you can load an .adx definition file we can try to locate tools to help determine whether or not the Delphi cable will be useful.


    Here's a link to Tunerpro R/T: https://www.tunerpro.net/download/Se..._v500_9252.exe

    This page has the newest version of Tunerpro and Tunerpro RT as well as links to old versions and some potentially helpful notes. Save this link although you may never need it.
    https://www.tunerpro.net/downloadApp.htm

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    I am not able to open 8cyl.bin using my commercial software. The software does not recognize the calibration as valid.

    Additionally my commercial software only recognizes a couple of files from my collection as directly comparable. All of those files are from 1500 series trucks using the 4L60E transmission. I will check through the files hosted on gearhead-efi to see if I can locate other files which are directly comparable.

    My advice is to continue gathering the components needed to datalog and to read and write calibration data. But I would advise using the original file from your truck when the time comes to make actual changes. I will keep looking for appropriate XDF files as well.

  13. #13
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    A quick update. I now have RT version of TunerPro - cw 'acquisitions' button. That will let me try the adx files for diagnostics - which I'll try next.

    Re cam timing and ABS. Some scanners (but not all) can do one or the other I think. Again, I'm just feeding off the buzz on GMT400 forum but without drilling into the detail and only because of pending jobs.

    Can't remember how I came by the 8cyl bin file or why. I'll delete it seeing as it's not appropriate.

    Thank you for offer of PCM, Pretty sure I'll take you up on that (we can discuss it later) as postage will be worth the peace of mind. Not as bad as some might expect either. Rock Auto ship most parts (eg, master cylinder, inlet manifold gasket set, that kind of stuff) for $20-30 via Fedex.

    Scottish ancestry!!! Anything I can ever help you with regarding Scotland is only your ask away. Where were you ancestors from and how long since they left here? I'm in Moray (whisky distillery territory) in the north east though my clan (yes, seriously!) were from Loch Lomond historically. The exodus across the Atlantic is in my life time. My father's sister and one of his brothers emigrated (separately) to Canada in the 1950s.
    Last edited by Pinger; 1 Week Ago at 09:59 PM.

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    It sounds like you're making progress.

    We have two scantools at the shop. One claims to be able to display the cam offset but we have not been able to make this happen as yet. The old tool will do it as part of a special test to "set timing." I could record the messages to and from the pcm to capture this function. Both scantools show ABS related data although I do not know if opening the valves is part of the function. We rarely have need to do that despite replacing brake lines and major components frequently.


    Ancestry: If you're in Moray than you may know someone I'm related to. The records are difficult to follow but I have Thomas Stronach born in Rafford in 1807. It appears he moved to Quebec Canada bet. 1847 and 1854 with his wife. Some records show his wife as Isabel Mcgillivray from Moray, father James Mcgillivray and mother Anne Baron but others show his wife as "Mary Q. Stronach." My great-grandfather passed away when my grandfather was nine so most of this family history is being learned anew.

    There's still much to learn. I've been told we are part Scottish since I've been young but no one has had anything more. But I've had a lifetime of watching folks who seem to puff with pride in exclaiming I have "A Good Irish Name." I've always had the disposition to tell them off. Now I have the records and DNA information to back it up.

    At some point, if you can provide a VIN for your vehicle, a friend of mine has graciously offered to obtain the correct calibration for your vehicle so it can be programmed into a PCM. This can be sent through private message if you'd rather.

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