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Thread: LX9 3.5l in MGB with 7730ecu and $A1 bin changing for larger displacement/injectors

  1. #1
    Electronic Ignition! MG-Maxx's Avatar
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    Question LX9 3.5l in MGB with 7730ecu and $A1 bin changing for larger displacement/injectors

    Had car running with a chip from GMtuners.com. Plan on going turbo so ordered Ostrich 2.0 and ALDL from Moates and Tunerpro RT. Somehow lost program on chip and having to start over. Have a couple $A1 bins using ARUR and BAUP as test. Doing a lot of research and not getting info I need.

    The bins are for 91-92 3.1 J Body manual engines, which has 16.7lb injectors. Have installed a AEM wideband O2. WB and O2 seem to agree at idle during open loop. As soon as it goes closed loop the INT and BLM are driven full rich (lower) which is leaning out as shown on WB. If I keep it open loop car runs rich 12-13

    Best XDF and ADL files to use? - tried a few.

    Need to adjust for larger injectors, can't find info on them. Have found them listed as on Stan Weiss list but with no data. Injector 12568155 FJ649 alt#12586557. The later 3400 had 22.5# injectors so I am assuming between 22# and 24#. I have changed in a couple spots for injector flow KDISFS (used for DIS?) and KINJXBC5 (Alpha N?). Found info on adjusting base Pulse Constant but only find that in BPCvsEGR which is normally at 224 (first block-egr deleted). Tried going high and low.

    Not sure if just tune issue or have sensor issues. Fixed my IAT which was broken. The attached log shows O2 always staying rich, is sensor wrong or just reading a rich condition. At times it seems to switch hi/low like I am use to other times always rich. Have replaced looked good for awhile.

    Any hints tips or just laughter (if followed with suggestion) is appreciated.

    Thanks

    MG Maxx
    74.5 MGB GT
    Rally build
    04 LX9 3.5 V6
    converted from FWD to RWD
    T5 trans
    7730 ECU
    Attached Files Attached Files

  2. #2
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    Maybe S_AUJP v6 engine is option? See attached .zip for details.

    For turbo, maybe Dynamic EFI is an option? https://www.dynamicefi.com/EBL_Choice.php
    Attached Files Attached Files

  3. #3
    Electronic Ignition! MG-Maxx's Avatar
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    Thanks for reply.

    I had already downloaded that bin to look at. I had hoped to stay with the tune I had and just try to improve it since it was a remote tune. This was to keep the learning curve down while getting use to how things worked both hardware and software side of things. Well that went kaput.

    Issue I have now is everthing is unknown. No info on injectors, unknown bin, new software, new install on WBo2..... in closed loop NBo2 reads rich and WBo2 reads lean.... mixed with no experience not sure what to believe or adjust. Computer savvy (first was a Tandy16) just learning tuning software and set ups.

    Started playing with the S_AUJP and know many of the set up options.. still having to guess on injector.

    Will read up on that bin more. Any suggested post or info is appreciated.

    Thanks
    MG Maxx

  4. #4
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    I'm most familiar with $OD using WBO2, which I crunch with Microsoft Excel.

    A similar spreadsheet is possible for $A1 using BLM's.

    It a chore having to start over again. The injector flow rate is the first thing to figure out. The attached screen shows AFR's. If all AFR's are lean, then adjust injector flow. If all AFR's are rich, then adjust injector flow. When the data logs shows some lean and some rich WBO2's then fine tune adjust the VE table.

    I favor WBO2 data vs. BLM data. Some members disagree with my method of $OD WBO2 tuning in closed loop, but $OD closed loop WBO2 tuning works for me.

    Off Idle.jpg

  5. #5
    Super Moderator Six_Shooter's Avatar
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    Since you plan on going turbo, and you need to start over, I would start with a mask that will work with boost now.

    My go to would be $59, which is an enhanced version of $58 (Syclone/Typhoon/Turbo Sunbird/another vehicle that eludes me right now). The forum for $59 is not active, but the bins, XDF and ADX can all be had anyway. This will be a drop in for your '7730. Thsi will require a 3 BAR MAP sensor. WBO2 fuel control is one of the big features of $59.

    $58 will also work and would be easier to tune, since it doesn't have as many features or flexibility that $59 has, but it works fine. There is a hack to make datalogging more stable. This isn't usally a problem using an Ostrich. but is definitely seen using an Autoprom. The hack is already incorporated into $59, FWIW. This will require a 2 BAR MAP sensor. This will also drop into your '7730.

    Then there's $8F, which is from the Pontiac TGP (Turbo Grand Prix), and will be the closest to start with for your 3.5, since the TGP uses a turbo 3.1. It's pretty limited though and using with a manual trans can be a bit quirky, but has been done. It seems to be a code that was really just thrown together and not very developed. This will require a 2 BAR MAP sensor.

    There's also $12P, which is an Australian code that was modified from a stock code, and works in the '7165, for a North American ECM option. This one will work with 1 Bar, 2 BAR and 3 BAR MAP sensors.
    The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.

  6. #6
    Electronic Ignition! MG-Maxx's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the responses.

    Tried out the S_AUJP mask. Got engine idling , roughly but running. Used several flow rates in engine configuration section. Set up for DIS, but had question on 'Spark Adv, maximum allowed for SA-DEF.
    XDF Entry
    BIN Location XDF Scalar Distributor(E) DIS(A)(F)
    0x009 SETUP, Number of Cylinders(C) (Decimal value) 192 192
    0x293 ERROR QUAL 41, Cylinder Select(C) (Hex value) 0x08 0x08
    0x025 SETUP SPARK ADV Base Dist./Reference Angle (Deg) 10 60
    0x026 SPARK ADV, Maximum Allowed for SA-REF (Deg)(D) 60 -10
    0x028 SPARK RETARD, Maximum Allowed for SA-REF (Deg)(B)(D) -10 -70

    It shows -10 but unlike the retard, it doesn't stipulate to enter as positive. If I enter as neg it goes to zero. so put it in as a positive integer. Correct?

    Learning a lot but have so much more to learn. Like now what to adjust to get idle better, fuel, spark or air?

    I had looked into Code 59 and have a member of 60degreeV6 willing to send me his bin for same engine twin turbo set up. He has a Camaro with the same setup and now working on a S10. So had planned on using but was just wanting to dip my toes in with my original tune but blew that.

    Haven't been able to download code 59 to play around with if someone could send a link. Will ask Mars to see if he could send me his now. I have a 3 bar on order and am looking at getting the 60lb injectors he is using also.

    Having other issues with car atm. Not getting the injectors to fire on crank, not first time. Found corrosion on ICM connector for the ecm rpm signal. DIS is firing plugs but ecm isn't seeing rpm. Non ecu related issue.

    How can I wipe the ostrich memory completely? Like to start with clean slate especially when switching between mask.

    Hooked up WBo2 to pin F14 and selected AEM linear but didn't see any activity in log.

    Again thanks for the help

    MG Maxx
    Last edited by MG-Maxx; 02-20-2021 at 01:01 AM.

  7. #7
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    The files attached are S_AUJP V5 files.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by dave w; 02-20-2021 at 01:36 AM.

  8. #8
    Super Moderator Six_Shooter's Avatar
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    The math involved to run DIS requires a negative value for a couple of the settings, I don't recall the math on it, but mathematically it makes sense. It's probably the way the XDF was created that won't allow a negative value. The author(s) of S_AUJP will be able to answer that better, also 1project2many could shed some light on the math.

    There's no need to "flush" the contents of the Ostrich, the memory is over written whenever you upload a new bin file to it.

    You could however create a bin file and in the hex editor fill it with FF.

    Here are some $59 files that should get you started. I believe there are also some files in the files section of this forum, scroll down in the main forum list and you'll see it.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Six_Shooter; 02-20-2021 at 06:10 AM.
    The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.

  9. #9
    Electronic Ignition! MG-Maxx's Avatar
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    Got O2s agreeing next step

    Have engine running on S_AUJP and have tried Dave's Mod 8 tune.

    Haven't been able to find out what the stock injectors flow information is. Have it set for 20lbs @55psi, if they are same as the 3400 injectors they are rated 18lbs @43.5psi. If anyone knows what the true info is for 12568155/12586557 let me know. I have found them listed on a couple sites but without any data. Without knowing this is set properly, I can't trust anything else. Played around with settings trying to get NBo2 to switch in closed loop. Had to go way big to get this to happen. Should I be looking for this or??? For the first time doing this, this just adds to the unknown variables so uncertain what to trust or do next.

    Originally had issues with NBo2 and WBo2 reading opposite from each other. Fixed a couple leaks and wiring issue causing #6 cylinder injector not firing. Now they both read the same.

    Trying to get idle set. o2 readings high, WBo2 11-12 NBo2 high 8-900. Have it set to stay open loop with DFCO,hiway PE and EGR off. Adjusting idle VE I seem to be able to get it from extreme rich to extreme lean.

    I have also ran Dave's Mod 8 tune. Runs great but a lot of popping and banging off throttle. I went through and compared it to base S_AUJP bin. Besides the VE and base spark tables being changed. There is a change in the DIS set up.

    BIN Location XDF Scalar Distributor(E) DIS(A)(F)

    0x025 SETUP SPARK ADV Base Dist./Reference Angle (Deg) 60
    0x026 SPARK ADV, Maximum Allowed for SA-REF (Deg) -10
    0x028 SPARK RETARD, Maximum Allowed for SA-REF (Deg) -70

    Mod 8 has the these settings:


    0x025 SETUP SPARK ADV Base Dist./Reference Angle (Deg) 70
    0X026 SPARK ADV, Maximum Allowed for SA-REF (Deg)(D) 0.0
    0x028 SPARK RETARD, Maximum Allowed for SA-REF (Deg)(B)(D) -60.12 (entered as Positive)

    The Spark Adv Max.... says to use -10 but doesn't say entered as positive as Spark Retard does. Seems Dave's tune has them reversed. Just the way he has it set or tuned or should be copied.

    Just to eliminate one unknown, I have a 3 bar on order and looking at 60lb injectors so I can use code59 and have injector data.

    Can I go ahead and tune VE and it will bring it within range or if injector info is wrong, its just gonna be garbage info.

    Also had issues on top of this with the Ostrich. Seems having laptop plugged in caused it to blow. Waiting on new unit. Dave at Moates has been great working it out with me.

  10. #10
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    Maybe gearhead-efi member 84Elky will add to this post? http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...ghlight=S_AUJP

    dave w

  11. #11
    Electronic Ignition! MG-Maxx's Avatar
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    Iginition timing at idle

    I have had to change a few things, learning curve so started fresh.

    Had wiring issues which caused issues with Moates Ostrich, which they stood behind their product even with the issues being mine. Great company! Thanks to Six Shooter also, followed his direction to resolve wiring.

    I have included my files, including a open loop idle. The spark is jumpy between ~29 to 35 degrees. I know it will move but seems excessive. Since I have found so many other things wrong just want to see if this is correct or an issue before I spend time trying to getting idle set. I thought ignition at idle should be about 16-20 degrees.

    This is a GM DIS system from a 3100V6. Issue with Ign Mod or adjustment with pickup.
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  12. #12
    Electronic Ignition! MG-Maxx's Avatar
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    Help :yikes::mad1:

    Needing some help. Car ran good before I lost my tune. It runs on A1 just needs adjusting. Been trying to get PE DFCO and Highway turned off. Still saw DFCO come on a couple times. I am including my bin and logs to see if anyone could help.

    Went on run to day. Pub 67 log. On return Pub return log, it started running lean according to WB and was spuddering at constant TP. Noticed in log the BPW would go almost to 0.2 lower. Now car doesnt run well at all closed loop. Car stopped seeing Ostrich (computer still does- Ribbon cable?) so back to burning chips.

    Will post second item with my SAUJP info. Haven't been running that due to knock, don't believe the DIS is set up correctly. Followed writeup that came with. Timing jumps around alot more then when running A1 tune.

    About to give up and cut hole in the UIM and weld a carb on....
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by MG-Maxx; 04-24-2021 at 03:16 AM.

  13. #13
    Electronic Ignition! MG-Maxx's Avatar
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    Here is the S-AUJP tune info. Even ran Dave W Mod 8 with about the same results in the begining but seemed to have more popping and banging from timing so haven't gone back but did try setting and some of the timing in the S_AUJP. Not sure where I am now.

    The WB AEM 30-0300 doesn't agree with adx. Used the conversion settings in the write up to get working but.... The WB Gauge shows a couple points richer then the WB1 in log. It also is showing Sensor 2 readings which don't agree with sensor 1????"?
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  14. #14
    Electronic Ignition! MG-Maxx's Avatar
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    Found issue with running lean was low fuel and dirty filter sock. Cleaned and filled. Will have to get gauge working. Only have oil and water temp atm.

    Did a couple WOT runs with the A1 bin. Didn't go open loop. Loading up a stock tune and transferring over my Injector base pulse and VE tables.

    Trying to figure this out before going code 59 and adding turbos.

  15. #15
    Electronic Ignition! MG-Maxx's Avatar
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    Update:

    Found out that after warmed up, engine was idling to low and causing Alternator not to charge, underdrive pulley set up didn't help situation. This was causing issues at idle since ECU was seeing low voltage changing pulse width. Increased idle and now always have good voltage.

    Will start new thread about DIS set up. Have added settings per instructions included with V6. Copied Dave W.'s settings due to Max Advance will not take a neg number (suppose to be -10). Added to Base Dist settings (changed from 60 to 70). Car runs fine but timing is jumpy. It does the normal few degrees but at times will jump to about 35 degrees and then go back down to mid-high 20's. Other thing that bothers me is max timing is showing mid 40's. All this in the datalog, is the high reading due to the settings for DIS, the extra 10 degrees in Base Dist settings:

    I load up the A1 Bin and the idle timing doesn't have that jump in it. As part of troubleshooting I ran the crank trigger away from injectors to make sure issue wasn't picking up a injector pulses.

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