[QUOTE=romac55;11259]You've got me completely confused? I've got to go for this evening, I'll check back tomorrow.Originally Posted by Six_Shooter
[QUOTE=romac55;11259]You've got me completely confused? I've got to go for this evening, I'll check back tomorrow.
YOU'RE confused , 93 ? Long before I posted a question , I did as much homework as I could , reading lots of other related posts and studying my GM service manuals so I wouldn't be asking stupid questions . I'm more confused than ever now , discovering I've called my system by its GM name instead of its "handle". My FI system is a Central Multiport Fuel Injection system on a 95 Astro 4.3-V6 Vortec engine that I've stuffed in a 55 Chevy . Your name for this system is apparently "CPI" . Are you with me so far ? Thanks for your patience ; the 95 Astro engine has a CPI system and a 16197427 ECM , but had a 4L60E trans . I'm installing it with a Muncie 4-speed , and just wanted to know if a manual trans TBI chip would work on the CPI system ? I've got a spare 16197427 from an S10 with TBI that has a manual trans. chip , and just wanted to know if it could run my CPI system . Hope you're not still confused ; no wonder the weak ones still use carburetors . This is exhausting ; now for the tuning ? Be safe...Bob.
Romac55, I'm going to join in for a while to see if we can get you corrected. The first thing we need is the BCC from the 2 memcal's. The 7427 runs $0D code which is the most hacked and documented code around, which will help this process immensely. I would probably do a binary file compare between the two of them to see what the differences are, then go from there. I am not really certain whether it will be easier to mod the manual tranny memcal to CPI or to mod the auto memcal to manual. Both ways you go will require some trial and error. I've played with a tbi to tpi conversion, and also with an auto to manual conversion. I think it was on here with Dave that we finally figured out how to do a manual trans in an auto memcal. Good luck, BTW pictures of the 55 would be really nice.
Square body stepsides forever!!!
I was confused by what you were using, mechanically.
To set this straight, no the TBI MEMCAL will NOT work for your CPI system. The firing scheme is wrong for starters, which will at the very least cause your engine to run rich.
As I've said a few times, the EPROM on the MEMCAL won't matter matter, whether it's from an auto or a manual, when you start tuning. The LHM (Limp Home Mode) and RFD (Redundant Fuel Device) will be the same between manual and auto, except in your case, where you have a TBI MEMCAL and a CPI MEMCAL. The cylinder hardware select side will be wrong, and cause the injectors to fire more frequently than they should, using the TBI MEMCAL. There are no auto trans controls in the LHM side that I'm aware of.
It sounds like you have tuning equipment? If not do you at least have an EPROM programmer, or access to one? You can program a manual bin, even modify the one that is currently on the PROM that is in the MEMCAL you have, for a manual transmission. You could also download a manual bin from the thread on that particular ECM, though I'm not sure there is a CPI Manual bin.
To put it simply, forget the TBI MEMCAL even exists, it will cause you issues.
The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.
That's what I needed to know ; thanks . I'll change my chip to the one from the manual CPI ECM , and start the tune from there ,looking for a manual trans Bin for CPI. Thanks . Be safe...Bob.
Six_Shooter
I am not trying to start an argument here, just learning stuff. My hack of $0d has a CFI/PFI mode switch at L400B that is tested in several places in the code. Am I mistaken that that bit turns on CFI mode?
;==================================~
; SET UP HARDWARE FOR CPI/PFI MODE
; or TBI MODE
;==================================~
LDX #$B93A ; TBI mode
LDY #L400B ; mode word
BRCLR 0,Y,#$01,L723A ; Bra if b0=0, In TBI mode
;================================================= =================~
; -In CPI/PFI mode
;================================================= =================~
LDX #$B91A ; CPI/PFI fuel mode
;================================================= =================~
;-Here to store
;================================================= =================~
L723A STX L3FFC ; I/O D Port
JSR LF08A ; RTS, Delay
Last edited by jim_in_dorris; 06-21-2012 at 09:14 AM.
Square body stepsides forever!!!
No, you're not mistaken, that's how the code works, but there is also a hardware side of it that needs to match and sets the injector firing scheme. The hardware side is part of the RFD side of the MEMCAL, this is why people talk about jumpers for cylinder select, when modifying a 6 cylinder MEMCAL for use with a V8, similar changes need to be made to switch between TBI and MPFI or CPI fueling.
The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.
ok, is that sort of like modifying the drivers and memcal to do tpi with a tbi prom? What I would think then is if he took the tbi memcal code, modified it to CPI/PFI, and put the prom in the CFI memcal then wouldn't that accomplish the same thing? The RFD side of the memcal would be for CFI, the code turned on the CFI, and all the tables would be set for manual tranny?
On the other hand, switching from auto code to manual code may be fairly straightforward, but as I recall, all the spark and fueling tables are different between them as well.
Last edited by jim_in_dorris; 06-21-2012 at 09:47 AM.
Square body stepsides forever!!!
What I'm trying to accomplish is simple ; I'd like to dump the ECM's 4L60E trans inputs , as I'm changing to a manual 4-speed . Can I just do that with a chip change to one from a manual trans truck (same 16187427 ECM) ? There's so much I don't know , kind of like basic education ; the more you learn , the less you know . LOL . Thanks for your wisdom . Be safe...Bob.
That's what I've been saying all along use the MEMCAL that has an original configuration for the induction system, in this case, CPI. Then program an EPROM for CPI with a manual trans, don't worry about what the original PROM was programmed for, it becomes null and void in the end. The LHM and RFD (and knock filter) side of the MEMCAL are the parts that remain connected to the ECM in the end. Even if there are large changes between an auto cal and a manual cal, there are editors for that (Tuner Pro). ;)
No, you can't use the TBI PROM on the CFI MEMCAL to accomplish what you want. The BIN/PROM is still programmed for TBI and will at the very least pop up a CEL (Check Engine Light) for cyl count error, possibly MEMCAL or PROM error.
The solution is simple. Use the CPI MEMCAL and program an EPROM with a CFI and manual trans bin. I'm pretty sure you will need to set-up the CPI bin for manual yourself, I don't recall there being a CPI with a manual trans from the factory.
You can use the compare function in Tuner Pro to find differences between auto and manual bins. Some stuff that would be TBI specific you would have to ignore.
The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.
using a spread sheet I downloaded from the moates website for BCC lookup there were no L35/Vin code "w"/CPI bins listed with a manual transmission. looking up some of the CPI BIN's on BCC find listed All under transmission so without downloading some bins and looking there's no telling. not to say that it dosn't exist just I've never came accross any.
OP, I've looked at a lot of CPI bins and their timing tables are much more aggressive than a TBI, and there are tables that only CPI engines use. like said above it would be better to use your CPI bin and copy the manual trans settings from another bin. Also just for your info when you are doing some searching or talking on other forums that are 4.3 centric most people will know what you are talking about if you say vin "w" or CPI. You will probably get flamed for refering to it by its real GM name (which sounds like an oxymoron if you ask me) or calling it a vortec.
Last edited by PJG1173; 06-21-2012 at 08:27 PM.
87 4Runner, 15" spring lift, 3" body, chevy vortec 355, 5.29 gears, 38.5x15.5x15" Boggers, 280hr, 16168625 running $0D
93 S10, 36x12.5x15 TSL's, custom turbo headers, 266HR cam, p&p vortec heads, $0D Marine MPFI with 8psi boost.
05 Silverado, 2' lift, 4" exhaust, Bully Dog programmer,
We changed the spider not 2 weeks ago on a 94 Blazer with "CPI" and it was a 5-speed . What trans inputs can there be for a manual trans ? There's no shift solenoids , no trans temp or pressure and no TCC lockups . I can see the VSS input , but i've made my own 40-toothed wheel for that . Don't all the trans inputs just get stored in the mem-cal ? Would just using the manual 94 Blazer CPI chip do the same thing as re-programming ? I haven't sent my order to Moates yet , but don't enjoy watching $400+ go out the door just for this one ECM . The years of CPI are about done it seems. Be safe...Bob.
Will he have to change more than these 2 mode words? I haven't done a manual tranny, but as near as I can see, these are the only 2 places to set a manual tranny. I do know that he may not need shift light enable.
L400E FCB $00 ; MODE WD, AFR 4 0000 0000
; b7 1 = not used
; b6 1 = not used
; b5 1 = LATCH ERR 45
; b4 1 = USE L496F WITH ASYNC FUEL DELIVERY
; b3 1 = VAR TUNE CNT'L
; b2 1 = SHIFT LIGHT ENABLE Do not use with 700R4
; b1 1 = USE ALT CMAP Vs. MAP LD FOR FUEL CUR HYST PAIR
; b0 1 = USE ALT CMAP Vs. MAP LD & AD MAP FOR BLM ENABLE
;================================================= ==
L400F FCB $58 ; MODE WD, DIG I/O 0101 1000
; b7 1 = MAN, (0 = TCC)
; b6 1 = TCC (Non Elect xmish)
; b5 1 = not used
; b4 1 = CONV OVER HEAT
; b3 1 = KNK RETARD
; b2 1 = A/C CLUTCH CNT'L, 0 = VAR TUNE
; b1 1 = not used
; b0 1 = 1 DO RPM/MPH LMT
Square body stepsides forever!!!
According to the $OD XDF, created by 98V8S10 (IIRC), if you read the comments for some of the manual parameters there are other things that need to be changed as well.
romacc55; Can you get the BCC of that manual CPI PCM?
It's not so much trans inputs that you need, its to have a happy PCM, that isn't looking for the automatic trans inputs and connection of the outputs. Using an E-trans bin with a manual, or just unplugging the E-trans connector, will get all sorts of trouble codes and put the PCM into a safe mode, not quite LHM, but not proper engine function either.
The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.
Six_shooter, I think he also needs to check the PCM, when searching for a manual V8 $0D prom, what was discovered was that the manual V8's didn't use a $0D compatable PCM, so just to be on the safe side he needs to check that. It would be a boon if he found a $0D prom for CPI and manual tranny, just thinking the odds are against it. I was thinking that other parameters might need to be changed, but didn't spend much time reading the hack looking for them.
Square body stepsides forever!!!
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