Whatever!!!!!!!!! Gearhead-EFI Edition

[JeepsAndGuns]

So the 0411 cam sensor runs off 12 volts and gives a 12 volt signal to the pcm?
I'm not sure if the jeep sensor could be run off 12 volts, guess there would be only one way to find out...lol
Not sure on what type of signal it sends out. I do know, from looking at the wiring diagrams for my 99 WJ, the signal wire goes from the sensor straight to the PCM. The PCM also supplies the 5v power and ground for the sensor.
Reading the the FSM for my 99 WJ, it discribes the cam sensor. It says its a "hall effect device called a sync signal generator" It goes on to discribe that when the shutter passes through the sensor and breaks the magnetic feild it causes the voltage to switch high resulting in a sync signal of aprox 5 volts. When the shutter exits the sensor, the voltage to swing low to 0 volts.
The shutter wheel on top of the shaft appears to be stacked in place and does not look like it would be really hard to remove with a small drill bit. I imigine a new one could be made, and the shaft drilled/tapped and the new one (or modded original one) could be put on and held on with a small bolt. I guess it all boils down to if the sensor/signal is compatable with the 0411 system.

I am willing to send this sensor to anyone who can and/or wants to test it.

[dave w]

So the 0411 cam sensor runs off 12 volts and gives a 12 volt signal to the pcm?
I'm not sure if the jeep sensor could be run off 12 volts, guess there would be only one way to find out...lol
Not sure on what type of signal it sends out. I do know, from looking at the wiring diagrams for my 99 WJ, the signal wire goes from the sensor straight to the PCM. The PCM also supplies the 5v power and ground for the sensor.
Reading the the FSM for my 99 WJ, it discribes the cam sensor. It says its a "hall effect device called a sync signal generator" It goes on to discribe that when the shutter passes through the sensor and breaks the magnetic feild it causes the voltage to switch high resulting in a sync signal of aprox 5 volts. When the shutter exits the sensor, the voltage to swing low to 0 volts.
The shutter wheel on top of the shaft appears to be stacked in place and does not look like it would be really hard to remove with a small drill bit. I imigine a new one could be made, and the shaft drilled/tapped and the new one (or modded original one) could be put on and held on with a small bolt. I guess it all boils down to if the sensor/signal is compatable with the 0411 system.

I am willing to send this sensor to anyone who can and/or wants to test it.

Looks like this part is affordable, about $32 at RockAuto.com http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...428&cc=1363441

I'm busy till near the end of the month. I'll update later on.

dave w

[ony]

that sensor looks like what ford uses in some of their older vehicles.

[dave w]

Pics of a 5.7 liter Vortec Distributor Wheel / Cam Position Wheel.

dave w

[dave w]

I decided to CAD a LS 24x wheel, very similar to the one offered by EFI Connections (http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonnection/24x.aspx). I don't know if the 5 degree angle spacing is correct?

dave w

[dave w]

I decided to CAD a LS 24x wheel, very similar to the one offered by EFI Connections (http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonnection/24x.aspx). I don't know if the 5 degree angle spacing is correct?

dave w

More pics. EFI Connections has updated it's 24x wheel.

dave w

[JeepsAndGuns]

Wow. Now I am even more confused than before. Ever since I have seen the LS 24x trigger wheel I have always wondered how it reads it. It always looked to me like it was actually two seperate reluctor wheels put together where the notch on one lines up with the groove in the other. Now that one you just posted looks like a more normal trigger wheel I am used to seeing. But does it function just the same as the other?

Will a 24x system work with a shutter type cam sensor, or does it need the type of sensor that is used with them stock? I know the 4x systems use the shutter type in the distributor, just not sure if the 24x systems can use the same sensor.
Still so much I need to learn.

There are still a few more options simillar to the above jeep cam sensor. The early 90's 4.0L systems (like my 93 YJ) use a shutter type that you have to disassemble the distributor and remove the shaft to change. Not sure if it would work. Now in the mid late 90's (not sure of the exact year they changed) they switched to where the sensor sandwitches between the dizzy cap and distributor. Possiable to retrofit a GM sensor into this style? Not sure, worth a try maybe. Pic:
http://www.cherokeeforum.com/attachm...4-12-12_13.jpg

I did find something interesting. The last two years of production of the 4.0 (05 and 06) they changed the system again and started using a different type of cam sensor. Now I dont have any info on the sensor. But the reluctor wheel looks easy to mod and looks like the factory notches could be filled in with weld, then the wheel machine to make it whatever you want. However with the size of the wheel, I could see being off balance being a major issue. Not to mention, it appears this setup is very troublesome in stock form. Look here for pics and info on it trouble: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/20...ilure-1144202/

[dave w]

My CAD drawings are WRONG, the degrees should be 12 degrees and 3 degrees. I was guessing 10 degrees and 5 degrees. See pic below.

Link for a new LS crank wheel. https://sdparts.com/details/gm-perfo...parts/12559353

I'll do some research and post back.

dave w

[dave w]

Wow. Now I am even more confused than before. Ever since I have seen the LS 24x trigger wheel I have always wondered how it reads it. It always looked to me like it was actually two seperate reluctor wheels put together where the notch on one lines up with the groove in the other. Now that one you just posted looks like a more normal trigger wheel I am used to seeing. But does it function just the same as the other?

EFI Connections has recently made a change in the 24x Crank Wheel design. See comparison pic.

MPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND
Our initial 24x crank reluctor (pictured left) was designed on a stock engine - an engine using all proper crank and timing set geometries. This 24x reluctor has two rows of teeth and the crank sensor must "read" both rows of teeth to output the proper 24x signal. On a stock engine, the reluctor installs within the crank sensor range.

We began to see problems when customers were using aftermarket parts with geometries that did not match the original GM parts. The biggest problem was related to double row timing sets that sometimes move the crank reluctor forward - due to a thicker than stock crank timing sprocket - and out of the crank sensor range. We recently released a new 24x crank reluctor (pictured right) with only one row of teeth. This reluctor requires a different crank sensor and harness connector. This reluctor/sensor combination outputs the same 24x signal to the PCM. This reluctor is much more forgiving when aftermarket parts move the reluctor forward.

[JeepsAndGuns]

Interesting. So use a different sensor and then you can use the solid trigger wheel. That solid one does look like it would be easyer/cheaper to machine out.

[dave w]

Interesting. So use a different sensor and then you can use the solid trigger wheel. That solid one does look like it would be easier/cheaper to machine out.

I'd like to know the application (make / model / year or GM Part Number) of the sensor used for the newly designed crank trigger wheel! The solid trigger wheel would be easier and less expensive to machine!

dave w

[dave w]

New Information about the '0411 Vortec Cam Position Wheel!! I was able to get a measurement on the Optical Measurement Tool (Smartscope). The tool is extremely accurate!! I have been wrong with my previous comments stating the wheel is 185 degrees.

From today forward, I am 100% confident stating that the '0411 Vortec cam position wheel optically measured at 175.52 degrees.

dave w

[JeepsAndGuns]

Interesting. Did you measure just one or measure a few of them? Although I doubt it, but is there a chance for manufacturing variations? The wheel appears to be simply stamped sheet metal, and I could see the potential for variation between them.

[dave w]

Interesting. Did you measure just one or measure a few of them? Although I doubt it, but is there a chance for manufacturing variations? The wheel appears to be simply stamped sheet metal, and I could see the potential for variation between them.

I measured only one. I agree, variations in production. The optical measuring tool is used to measure variations in production parts. Funny thing, now that I think about it, 175 + 185 = 360.

dave w

[dave w]

I decided to CAD a LS 24x wheel, very similar to the one offered by EFI Connections (http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonnection/24x.aspx). I don't know if the 5 degree angle spacing is correct?

dave w

The spacing is 3 degrees / 12 degrees. CAD is updated. I'm not sure if I have crank keyway in the correct spot, I guessing.

I'll update the CAD for the dual trigger wheel soon.

dave w