16197427 Stand alone 4L80E controller questions?

[vandyman]

I have been doing a bunch of reading about using a GM ECU as a stand alone transmission controller. The information that is out there is old and vague, not links, etc.
I have two 94 - 95 16197427 ECUs with chip # BJWN and BJYM. I also have everything needed for wiring. I have a few questions if anyone can answer, THANKS...

Here is some info on what I am planning to use the 4L80e on;
1986 Monte Carlo
355 ATK engine 395hp - 425tq.
TH400 trans 2800 stall
Ford 9" 3.50 rear
MSD Atomic EFI
MSD 6al2 and billet distributor (15 degreed rotor)
Have a rebuilt 93 GoodWrench 4L80E Trans (I want the extra gear for cruising)

1. Is it worth it using a GM ECU for a Trans controller only or should I just spend the money and get an MSD TCU ?

2. What can I use for an ESS? Will my MSD bullet distributor tach output work?

3. I have two Vss on the Trans, I know I need to use the one by the tail, but can I use the front one for the ESS?

4. What bin and xdf should I start with, This is going to be a learning curve ...?

5. Can I still use a stall convertor ?

THX, vandyman

[dave w]

"1. Is it worth it using a GM ECU for a Trans controller only or should I just spend the money and get an MSD TCU ?" It might be time vs. headache question, or maybe a learning curve vs. money question?

The MSD is obviously more expensive, with good support from the manufacture. For those gearhead-efi members with awesome skills (mostly wiring and chip programming skils), the obvious answer is to use the GM computer. It's likely a better option to use the MSD TCU, because hiring someone with the skills to make a factory ECU work could approach the cost of the MSD TCU? If you had someone local to you willing to provide some technical assistance for you might be an option? Without someone local to you with the skills for the factory ECU, the "Brand Name" TCU is an excellent option.

dave w

[vandyman]

Thanks Dave.
I did all the work on my Monte myself and used all good parts. So I will go with the MSD unit.
There is no sense in being cheap now. Lol..
I may have some questions on tuning my Atomic efi, I will start a new thread later on.
Thx...

[In-Tech]

I'll generally be quiet, stay away from the msd tcu controller as well as the fast. The pcs controller is good as well as the us shift controller, the rest of the aftermarket fails to compare to the GM unit. The usshift and pcs is very user friendly. The gm trans only controllers used in the 90's diesel's is a good option too and tunercat has tuning software for $19.95, very hard to beat. In my opinion, stay away from the trans controllers that only allow handheld user interface boxes. They only allow some changes, the ability to have full control via laptop will make it sooooooooooo much better in a swap environment.

[vandyman]

In-Tech,

What is it that you do not like about the MSD TCU ?
The MSD Atomic TCU has a lot of tuning parameters. I will most definitely stay away from the older MSD TCU.

THX, vandyman

[vandyman]

I have been doing a bunch of reading about using a GM ECU as a stand alone transmission controller. The information that is out there is old and vague, not links, etc.
I have two 94 - 95 16197427 ECUs with chip # BJWN and BJYM. I also have everything needed for wiring. I have a few questions if anyone can answer, THANKS...

Here is some info on what I am planning to use the 4L80e on;
1986 Monte Carlo
355 ATK engine 395hp - 425tq.
TH400 trans 2800 stall
Ford 9" 3.50 rear
MSD Atomic EFI
MSD 6al2 and billet distributor (15 degreed rotor)
Have a rebuilt 93 GoodWrench 4L80E Trans (I want the extra gear for cruising)

1. Is it worth it using a GM ECU for a Trans controller only or should I just spend the money and get an MSD TCU ?

2. What can I use for an ESS? Will my MSD bullet distributor tach output work?

3. I have two Vss on the Trans, I know I need to use the one by the tail, but can I use the front one for the ESS?

4. What bin and xdf should I start with, This is going to be a learning curve ...?

5. Can I still use a stall convertor ?

THX, vandyman

I need to make clarify a few things from my main post.
The 4L80E was replacement for a 1993 G30 Van. The transmission is an updated GM Goodwrench with a 1995 date on the tag on the side of the transmission.
The transmission looks to have the black updated VSS sensors on it.
I received the transmission with the ECU and wiring harness. The ECU is 16147609, chip AXNA. I believe it is the original 1993 ECU with a modified Chip for the trans rebuild.
I picked up the 116197427 ECU because the trans is a 95 and thought it would be easier to program then the 609.
The 609 ECU has the so called blue chip socket,

The problem that I am going to have is what tuning values to use. Chip reading/burning, wiring ,soldering, etc.. is no issue for me.

THX, vandyman

[dave w]

I'm wondering which plug your transmission has? The 93 4L80E might have the early style connector.

Link to pic of early style connector: https://www.utterpower.com/gm_4l80e_..._connector.htm

gearhead-efi link to $OE (4L80E) information: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...Information-OE (.bin, .xdf, .adx, .xdl files, and schematics).

Link to Bluecat Transmission Tuning software (free): https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...Table-Software

The 16197427 will need the following inputs to control a 4L80E, RPM. TPS, VSS, ISS, Ignition, Battery +, Battery -.

The Memcal will need the engine error codes turned off:
16197427 Malfunction Error Codes
These are general error codes for GM in 1995. All may not apply to 16197427 PCM

11 Malfunction indicator lamp circuit voltage was wrong for 26 seconds.
13 Oxygen sensor voltage stays between 0.35 and 0.55 volts for 60 seconds. Engine was at normal operating temperature and had been running for at least 2 minutes after start with a throttle angle above 5%.
14 Coolant temperature sensor signal indicates a temperature of over 284° F.
15 Coolant temperature sensor signal indicates a temperature colder than -40° F.
16 A low resolution pulse was not detected by ECM within 720 high resolution timing pulses.
18 Injector driver circuit voltage to PCM was wrong for 4 seconds.
21 TPS voltage was above 2.5 volts for 3 seconds when the engine was running, or when the TPS was above 4.8 volts at any time.
22 TPS voltage was under 0.23 volts when the engine was running.
23 Inlet air temperature sensor signal showed an air temperature below -31° F for 60 seconds after the engine has been running for 4 minutes.
24 Vehicle speed was 0 MPH when engine speed was between 900 and 3000 RPM and throttle position angle was less than 2% for 5 seconds.
25 Inlet air temperature sensor signal showed an air temperature over 302° F for 12 seconds after the engine has been running for 4 minutes.
26 ECM detected the wrong potential voltage at the #1 quad-driver module circuit for 20 seconds.
27 ECM detected the wrong potential voltage at the #2 quad-driver module circuit for 3 seconds.
28 ECM detected the wrong potential voltage at the #3 quad-driver module circuit for 3 seconds.
29 Secondary air injection pump circuit voltage was wrong for 26 seconds.
32 EGR open command did not change the fuel mixture when the command was given during off idle operation. EGR opening should cause the mixture to be slightly richer because of the low oxygen content of the exhaust gas.
33 MAP sensor signal voltage was too high (low vacuum) for 1 second when throttle opening was under 20% and engine speed was above 1250 RPM.
34 MAP sensor signal voltage was too low (high vacuum) when engine speed was under 700 RPM, or when TPS was greater than 20% with an engine speed above 700 RPM.
36 ECM detected less than 40 high resolution timing pulses between each low resolution pulse for 5 consecutive cycles.
41 EST circuit voltage was above 4.6 volts when engine speed was under 1500 RPM.
42 PCM did not detect any EST signal within 84 crankshaft revolutions.
43 One or both of the knock sensors were either open or grounded for 5 seconds.
44 Left oxygen sensor voltage was under 0.2 volts for 50 seconds of closed loop operation.
45 Left oxygen sensor voltage was over 0.7 volts for 50 seconds when the throttle angle was above 4% during closed loop operation.
47 Knock sensor signal was not present.
48 There was no MAF signal when engine was on.
50 PCM detected an ignition voltage of less than 8.0 volts.
51 PROM error.
52 Engine oil temperature was below -31° F after engine had been running for 30 minutes.
53 ECM detected a battery voltage above 17.1 volts.
55 ECM detected a lean oxygen sensor voltage for 8 seconds during the power enrichment modes of operation.
62 Engine oil temperature sensor indicated an oil temperature above 284° F after engine had been running for 30 minutes.
63 Right oxygen sensor was open showing a steady voltage between 0.35 and 0.55 volts for 60 seconds after the engine had been running for at least 2 minutes with a throttle angle above 5%.
64 Right oxygen sensor voltage was below 0.2 volts for 50 seconds of closed loop operation.
65 Right oxygen sensor voltage was above 0.7 volts for 50 seconds of closed loop operation when the throttle angle was above 4%.
66 A/C pressure sensor circuit was either open or shorted showing a voltage below 0.12 volts or above 4.86 volts for 10 seconds.
67 ECM did not detect an A/C system pressure change of more than 9 psi when A/C clutch was engaged.
68 ECM detects voltage on the A/C status line for more than 20 seconds after ECM has disengaged the A/C relay.
69 ECM did not detect any voltage on A/C status line for 20 seconds after ECM had commanded A/C ON.
70 A/C clutch relay circuit showed incorrect potential voltage at PCM for 26 seconds.
72 Transmission output speed changed more than 1000 RPM for 2 seconds when vehicle was in gear, or transmission output speed changed more than 2048 RPM when vehicle was in park or neutral.
73 Pressure control solenoid return amperage was more than 0.16 amp different than the commanded amperage for 1 second.
74 Traction control system active signal input was 0 volts for more than 2 seconds when vehicle was in park or neutral.
75 Ignition voltage was less than set value for 4 seconds when engine speed was above 1000 RPM.
77 Cooling fan relay #1 control potential voltage at PCM was incorrect for 26 seconds.
78 Cooling fan relay #2 and #3 control potential voltage at PCM was incorrect for 26 seconds.
79 Transmission fluid temperature signal indicated a temperature higher than 295° F for 30 minutes, or higher than 306° F at any time.
81 Transmission 2-3 shift solenoid voltage stayed high for 2 seconds after commanded ON by PCM, or the voltage stayed at zero for 2 seconds after commanded OFF by PCM.
82 Transmission 1-2 shift solenoid voltage stayed high for 2 seconds after commanded ON by PCM, or the voltage stayed at zero for 2 seconds after commanded OFF by PCM.
83 TCC PWM solenoid voltage stayed high for 2 seconds after commanded ON by PCM, or the voltage stayed at zero for 2 seconds after commanded OFF by PCM.
84 Transmission 3-2 shift solenoid voltage stayed high for 5 seconds after commanded ON by PCM, or the voltage stayed at zero for 5 seconds after commanded OFF by PCM.
85 TCC solenoid remained ON for 4 seconds after commanded OFF by PCM 90 TCC solenoid voltage stayed high for 2 seconds after commanded ON by PCM, or the voltage stayed at zero for 2 seconds after commanded OFF by PCM.
91 One to Four up-shift lamp control signal showed incorrect potential voltage at PCM for 26 seconds.
97 VSS output signal showed incorrect potential voltage at PCM for 26 seconds.
98 Tach output signal showed incorrect potential voltage at PCM for 26 seconds.


dave w

[vandyman]

WOW! Thanks for the info Dave.
I went out and grabbed some quick pictures.
The VSS id is 24203876, Which I believe is the 94 and up.
The outside of the trans needs to be cleaned, but the inside is super clean. Fluid looks new and there is no shavings on the bottom of the pan.
I am going to go out on a limb and say that trans has very little miles on the rebuild. The Van must have been totaled not long after the trans replacement.
PXL_20200925_220654447.jpgPXL_20200925_220649340.jpgPXL_20200925_220844170.jpg

[dave w]

The connector picture looks like the newer type connector.

The 16197427 VSS is actually 2000 pulses per mile or 2K. The factory uses a Vehicle Speed Sensor Buffer (VSSB) to convert the 40 pulses per driveshaft revolutions into the 2K pulses per mile.

Link to VSSB Calibration:
https://harristuning.com/Tbi/vssb-drac-calibration/
https://www.udmodule.com/drac/
https://www.dieselplace.com/threads/...ometer.351378/

dave w

[vandyman]

Dave you have me a little confused.
When I say VSS, I am referring to the transmission input and output sensors. (only the output is needed?)
I am using a GPS speed sensor for my after market cluster gauges.
So the question is do I need a drac for the TCU/TMM/PCM ?

vandyman

[dave w]

I corrected my link to the 4L80E gearhead-efi information link: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...Information-OE
The wiring schematics below are for the 16197427 4L80E ISS input and VSS input.

The factory 16197427 computer requires using the VSSB or DRAC to convert the 40 pulses per driveshaft revolution VSS output signal (trigger wheel / sensor) from the 4L80E into 2000 pulses per miles. That is a sunrise in the East, sunset in the West statement ... it's just the way the factory wired it.

"So the question is do I need a drac for the TCU/TMM/PCM ?" The PCM

dave w


4L80E ISS Input.JPG

4L80E VSS Input.JPG

[vandyman]

PXL_20201008_173158226.jpgI picked up a Drac module and I will modify it with a set of dip switches.
I found a little time and removed the trans cover. Here are some pictures that were taking.

vandymanPXL_20201005_181911306.jpgPXL_20201005_181925351.jpg

[Racprops]

OK I may have a problem.

First question is what is the VSS pulse rate for the 4L60e ??

I was going to use my Vans original ECM 625 so I converted the US Gear Dual Range gear speedo drive to a 4l60 VSS.

So I am now hoping the VSS pulse from this conversion will work?

Rich

[Racprops]

Second question now after reading more is what year is my 4L80e??

I am knee deep in working out the conversion to a 4727 ECM and how to hook up my 4L80e, now it seems there is a older version of a 4L80e and a newer model and that matters as to rather I can USE a 4727 or not...

So can anyone tell from the pictures what year my 4L80e IS??


Thanks

Rich

[tayto]

your transmission appears to already be updated to a 94+. The major changes from the early units 91-93 are an updated PCS valve, a vent hole drilled in the valve body, a different separator plate and updates harness. you will need to remove 1 wire from the transmission connector and repin 2 other wires. will also have to run a "twisted pair" from the pcm for the input speed sensor. your van should already have a DRAC. 4l60e to 4l80e swap has been well documented over the last 20+ years try searching on google for specifics if you can't read wiring digrams.

using a 7427 is by no means user friendly, if you are looking for something quick and easy to setup your trans this is not the way to go. if MSD has an addon to do e-trans control that is the route i would recommend for you. there are also othwr options such a US shift controller that is geared towards the average DIY'er.