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Thread: SA tables

  1. #1
    Carb and Points!
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    SA tables

    Looking for a performance, main and extended, SA table for a TBI 350 with an LT1 cam.
    Any help would be appreciated.

    Thanks !

  2. #2
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    Gearhead-efi LT1 information, including LT1 timing tables: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...rmation-EE-EEB

    dave w

  3. #3
    Carb and Points!
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    Thank you, I was looking through the bins section and got confused!!

  4. #4
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    Open a 94 or 95 Corvette (Y-Body) LT1 .bin file file in TunerPro using definition file $EE-16188051-V3.6.xdf and you will be able to see the Corvette timing tables.

    dave w

  5. #5
    Carb and Points!
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    Thank You very much Dave ! I really appreciate your effort !

  6. #6
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    Sometimes a novice tuner is overwhelmed with the technical details of tuning. At some point of time in my past, I was a novice, with good of possibly above average computer skills. The "E" in EFI is Electronic. Interestingly, "E" means many different things to "Tuners". Injector characteristics or offsets, software / hardware, fuel tables, spark tables, measured air flow and lists go on and on.

    One thing I've learned with thousands and thousands of posts read and replied to, "E" DOES NOT MEAN PLUG-N-PLAY. Tuning is homework, trial, and error!

    Perhaps a skill challenge would be to post a screen shot of a Corvette LT1 timing table in this tread? The challenge could very well lead to having the pack chasing tail lights, not running with the pack chasing after tail lights?

    dave w

  7. #7
    Fuel Injected! steveo's Avatar
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    why a corvette table and not something from a b body? not sure an iron head engine with standard cooling and a less accurate distributor would be in the range of the y body table (never tried myself so correct me if im wrong)

  8. #8
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    What heads? With TBI heads you'd be better off sticking to TBI'ish timing. You'd use LT1'ish timing with fast burn type heads.

  9. #9
    Carb and Points!
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    Since I am using EBL that has, what I believe, is a proprietary mask, all tuning has to be manual outside a VE learn. Copy and paste doesn't work,
    as the tables also present differently. The truck pulls pretty hard after about three hours adjusting VE, with low knock counts. I figured, being new to
    tuning, that I should tackle timing next to get the most out of the cam with the somewhat limited TBI heads. I was looking for a table to wrap my head around
    the SA difference to point to the areas i could start adjusting the timing. The caprice iron head 9C1 is also a good starting point.
    The attachments are the Corvette LT1 and the table I am using (L05, 5spd, '90 c1500)

    Bryan

    VetteLT1.PNG
    90L055spd.PNG

  10. #10
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    Ok, some members are really challenged with "Laptop" skills. The post above demonstrates good "Laptop" skills. The Dynamic EFI system is a good system with several features the factory TBI computer does not have. I agree, not sharing proprietary Dynamic EFI information is a good plan. I agree, sometimes the Dynamic EFI user needs to "Course Tune" prior to VE Learns. The attached screen shots below are from my Dynamic EFI WBO2 spreadsheet I configured for EBL WBO2 tuning.

    To copy paste timing tables from different Masks ($EE vs. Dynamic EFI), interpolation is required. Different Masks have different table sizes or dimensions. Dynamic EFI has the main SA 12 cells (columns) MAP and 17 cells (rows) RPM. The Main $EE SA has 16 cells (columns) MAP and 15 cells (rows) RPM. TunerPro can only copy / paste identical table sizes. To copy / paste the $EE table into Dynamic EFI the $EE table has be interpolated to 12 cells (columns) MAP and 17 cells (rows) RPM.

    Tuning is Trial and Error. The option to use $EE or $EEB SA tables interpolated to fit the Dynamic EFI table is tuning.

    dave w

    Lower AFR's 3-17-20.jpg

    Upper AFR's 3-17-20.jpg

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave w View Post
    Ok, some members are really challenged with "Laptop" skills. The post above demonstrates good "Laptop" skills. The Dynamic EFI system is a good system with several features the factory TBI computer does not have. I agree, not sharing proprietary Dynamic EFI information is a good plan. I agree, sometimes the Dynamic EFI user needs to "Course Tune" prior to VE Learns. The attached screen shots below are from my Dynamic EFI WBO2 spreadsheet I configured for EBL WBO2 tuning.

    To copy paste timing tables from different Masks ($EE vs. Dynamic EFI), interpolation is required. Different Masks have different table sizes or dimensions. Dynamic EFI has the main SA 12 cells (columns) MAP and 17 cells (rows) RPM. The Main $EE SA has 16 cells (columns) MAP and 15 cells (rows) RPM. TunerPro can only copy / paste identical table sizes. To copy / paste the $EE table into Dynamic EFI the $EE table has be interpolated to 12 cells (columns) MAP and 17 cells (rows) RPM.

    Tuning is Trial and Error. The option to use $EE or $EEB SA tables interpolated to fit the Dynamic EFI table is tuning.

    dave w

    Lower AFR's 3-17-20.jpg

    Upper AFR's 3-17-20.jpg
    B-car LT1 is what the TBI and Vortec maps I have posted are based on. They max out about 28 at WOT and have a conservative advance rate given many had 2.56 gears in a 4,000 lbs car.

  12. #12
    Fuel Injected! 84Elky's Avatar
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    Here's a fool-proof technique to build a Spark Table. It does not follow the GM model where spark is all over the place. It works much better. Agree with Fast355 that Vortec heads should max out at 28-30* advance. RPM at that advance subject to engine build, but generally 2800-3200.
    https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...ml#post6301288

  13. #13
    Carb and Points!
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    Thank you for your reply, very informative post !! Got some studying to do !!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 84Elky View Post
    Here's a fool-proof technique to build a Spark Table. It does not follow the GM model where spark is all over the place. It works much better. Agree with Fast355 that Vortec heads should max out at 28-30* advance. RPM at that advance subject to engine build, but generally 2800-3200.
    https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...ml#post6301288

    Interesting post, but I don't understand why at full throttle (100kpa cells) you would ramp to max advance, for example 28* for Vortec or 36* for conventional at around 3000rpm, and then start ramping the timing back down again. The example of dropping to 24* @ 4800rpm Seems like a good way to kill upper rpm power. Good way to stop knock though.

  15. #15
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    The piston speed vs. fuel igniting lag time is an important dynamic for spark advance. Fuel takes time to ignite, then explode. As the piston speed increases (aka RPM increase) the timing of the IGNITING Spark needs to occur when piston is further away from TDC.

    dave w

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