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Thread: PE enabled, but not activating (0411 8322)

  1. #16
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    If you open the bin that I posted using Tunerpro, you should be able to see the changes. Many PE parameters were adjusted - which will likely have no effect. Open Loop was setup to be true Open Loop - no Oxygen Sensor feedback. In the higher load areas, Commanded Fuel while in Open Loop was adjusted to potentially provide the PE AFR that you are looking for - a workaround for no PE enable.

  2. #17
    Fuel Injected! woody80z28's Avatar
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    Gotcha. Thanks. Looks like I was editing my post when you added yours. That's the exact kind of thing I was envisioning to get around a PE issue.
    80 Camaro Z28 - 550hp AFR 383 / T56 6spd (Holley HP EFI)
    91 Beretta "SS" - 260hp 3400 MPFI / HM282 5spd (7730/$A1)
    94 Silverado Z71 - 300hp Vortec 357 TBI / NV4500 5spd (7427/$0D) gone but not forgotten
    01 Silverado 2500HD - stock Vortec 8.1 / ZF6 6spd (0411/8322)

  3. #18
    Fuel Injected! woody80z28's Avatar
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    Great success!

    I modified the LRT bin to also disable the MAF and mistakenly flashed the non-modified one. AFR was low 14s. So I looked at it and realized what happened, flashed a MAFless copy and AFRs were in the low 12s. My ~19-20sec "dyno" pull only took 16sec! That's a definite improvement.

    So I know I need to do some MAF scaling. Very excited though...cause now I know I can make changes and see results.

    Thanks to everyone who helped out. I would not have figured this out on my own.
    80 Camaro Z28 - 550hp AFR 383 / T56 6spd (Holley HP EFI)
    91 Beretta "SS" - 260hp 3400 MPFI / HM282 5spd (7730/$A1)
    94 Silverado Z71 - 300hp Vortec 357 TBI / NV4500 5spd (7427/$0D) gone but not forgotten
    01 Silverado 2500HD - stock Vortec 8.1 / ZF6 6spd (0411/8322)

  4. #19
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    Due to the COVID-19 pandemic, all nonessential businesses are closed in my area, so I now have more free time than I have ever had. I flashed a PCM with your VIN based OEM calibration, to use as a basis for comparison. The following comments are intended in the spirit of information sharing. Text based posts lack both facial expression and vocal tone. I am not being critical, merely sharing a little of what I know.

    Speed Limiter ... you had increased the Speed Limiter. Unless you have upgraded to a custom made aftermarket driveshaft, this is a dangerous action. The stock driveshaft will begin to take on a banana like shape, once you exceed its critical rotational velocity. The driveshaft will either explode, or pull completely out of the transmission / hanger bearing - which is equally catastrophic.

    Tire size ... it looks like you adjusted the VSS PPM from the OEM 28.79 inch diameter rear tire to a 30.87 inch diameter rear tire. I adjusted the TOS revolutions to match your change.

    Fan Temp ... looks like you have enabled a single cooling fan. The control temperatures suggest that you are using a 160 degree Fahrenheit thermostat. While this is OK for a racing vehicle, it will often cause problems with a daily driver. Generally, you can replace the stock 192 - 195 F thermostat with a 180 F thermostat - and maintain proper functions. If you indeed have installed a 160 F thermostat, this will contribute to control issues (fuel and spark), as the engine coolant temperature may never reach the required "operating" temperature.

    Spark Tables ... your High Octane Spark Table and your Low Octane Spark Table are the same. The unenlightened will tell you to do this - but these coffee shop experts do not understand how the Octane Scaler and Knock Retard algorithms function. Spark advance is not an either / or proposition. That is, the PCM does not exclusive use the High Octane Spark Table, or exclusively use the Low Octane Spark Table. The delta (difference) between these two tables affords the PCM upper and lower limits of spark advance. The PCM then employs an algorithm to blend these values on a percentage scale. This allows the PCM to arrive at the maximum useable spark advance for the present conditions (i.e. fuel grade, ambient air temperature, atmospheric pressure, and engine load).

    The ONLY time that you may need the High Octane Spark Table and the Low Octane Spark Table to be the same, is when using a GM Operating System (OS) and you have temporarily disabled the MAF Sensor, to retune the VE table. This is because the GM OS defaults to the Low Octane Spark Table, if a MAF Sensor fault is detected. This is a TEMPORARY tuning condition, and you must pay very close attention to engine knock during this tuning exercise. If you wish to operate permanently in Speed Density Mode (i.e. no MAF Sensor input), then a Custom Operating System (COS) will restore all spark function.

    Try the Bin attached below. The MAF Sensor curve has been "guesstimated" based on your forum posts. The intent is to determine if Power Enrichment (PE) will actually enable. Please leave the MAF Sensor enabled (if possible).

    If this Bin does not allow PE to enable, I have another Bin ready to go with some experimental parameters adjusted.

    As always, closely monitor your Wide Band Oxygen Sensor values, and be very alert to potential engine knock.

  5. #20
    Fuel Injected! woody80z28's Avatar
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    Thank you. All input is appreciated.

    We're "essential" so even though NY is mostly closed, I gotta go to work. But we're on 4 days right now cause orders are slow. And today is beautiful! So I just got back from a drive.

    Tires: yes, I went from stock 245s to 265s. What's the TOS? EDit: nvm. Trans output shaft speed.

    Fans: That old bin is from when I was setting up my fans. My operating temp was only hitting mid 160s, so I set them there just to be sure the harness worked. It's set to 192 now. I actually replaced the tstat with a 180, thinking the previous owner may have put a 160 in, but it didn't change the operating temp. Warmer days now have put my operating temp in the mid 170s, but my gauge is always about 185...even when the datalog and my handheld read 160. Strange. I don't see an added bypass anywhere.

    Spark: I made those the same to simplify tuning like my obd1 Beretta. Maybe that's not ideal.

    I just logged another bin where I reactivated the MAF after adding 10%to the g/sec chart. That put my wideband in the mid 14s at WOT. I'll make the fan changes, etc and try yours, too. Edit: Looks like you added more than 10%. Which is needed.

    I'm working with Kur4o to get a decent solution to datalog with TunerPro and the obdlink. We're adding KR logging, but that showing 1.5deg the whole time, so something needs adjusting. That whole deal has been a challenge, too.

    Going to flash and test it now.
    Last edited by woody80z28; 03-26-2020 at 11:16 PM. Reason: Looked at BIN
    80 Camaro Z28 - 550hp AFR 383 / T56 6spd (Holley HP EFI)
    91 Beretta "SS" - 260hp 3400 MPFI / HM282 5spd (7730/$A1)
    94 Silverado Z71 - 300hp Vortec 357 TBI / NV4500 5spd (7427/$0D) gone but not forgotten
    01 Silverado 2500HD - stock Vortec 8.1 / ZF6 6spd (0411/8322)

  6. #21
    Fuel Injected! woody80z28's Avatar
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    Hmmm. I tried that bin out and it gave an MIL (P1336 Crankshaft Position System Variation). It was noticeably less responsive. But it had to have entered PE (13.4 at WOT) with the open loop table set at stoich up top.

    I put the last tune in just to be sure it wasn't a sensor problem and the MIL went away and the throttle response came back.
    80 Camaro Z28 - 550hp AFR 383 / T56 6spd (Holley HP EFI)
    91 Beretta "SS" - 260hp 3400 MPFI / HM282 5spd (7730/$A1)
    94 Silverado Z71 - 300hp Vortec 357 TBI / NV4500 5spd (7427/$0D) gone but not forgotten
    01 Silverado 2500HD - stock Vortec 8.1 / ZF6 6spd (0411/8322)

  7. #22
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    Thank you for trying that. My apologies for the lackluster results, however several things were learned.

    The P1336 DTC is interesting. When you reprogram (flash) both the OS and Calibration sections of the PCM, the Crankshaft Variation Learn data is overwritten - which would cause the P1336 DTC if using a non-native Bin (i.e. the Bin from the PCM that I bench flashed).

    However, with commercial tuning software flashing only the Calibration section (less than 20% of the overall program), does not overwrite the Crankshaft Variation Learn data. This means that the flash tool that you are using writes some sections of the overall program during a Calibration only type flash, that commercial tuning software does not. This is not a problem, but it is good to know. This means that the native Bin must be used for changes, or the Crankshaft Variation Learn data will be lost (overwritten).

    The next thing learned is that the PCM is still not going into PE. You reported an AFR of around 13.4 at WOT. If PE was indeed active, the AFR should have been in the low 12 range. The PCM is going into Open Loop operation, but not PE.

    The last thing learned ties into the above. Once at operating temperature the Open Loop the AFR should be very close to Stoichiometry (AFR in the low to mid 14 range). The observed 13.4 AFR means that my "guesstimated" MAF Sensor calibration was too rich. Your global addition of 10% to the overall MAF Sensor calibration was likely close to being an accurate representation of Stoichiometry.

    I will use the Bin that you posted as the basis for future attempts at PE activation. Working with a Bin file means that I can only use TunerPro to make changes, which will slow me down a little.

  8. #23
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    I am almost sure that the case relearn data is stored at the eeprom region of the bin 4000-8000 area, which can be overwritten only in clone mode. Under normal programming it shouldn`t be updated. Maybe the error is caused by some other settings that affect this DTC.

    LRT you have lots experience with the ls1 code. It is completely off topic but have you managed to figure out the routine that sends data via the ALDL bus on the ls1 pcm. I am trying to find it and make a hack that will enable the pcm to stream custom data via aldl for logging essential data. I looked at a lot of dissasemblies but I am not even close to figuring this out.

    Confirming the PE mode can be done by looking at the stoich target the pcm use. If it is stuck at 14.7 all the time, than there is indeed no PE enabled.

  9. #24
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    Quick lunch break reply, I'll come back later.

    I did a full clone flash with your bin, because I also added kur4o's aldl patch. I can try it again without the patch if you'd like.
    80 Camaro Z28 - 550hp AFR 383 / T56 6spd (Holley HP EFI)
    91 Beretta "SS" - 260hp 3400 MPFI / HM282 5spd (7730/$A1)
    94 Silverado Z71 - 300hp Vortec 357 TBI / NV4500 5spd (7427/$0D) gone but not forgotten
    01 Silverado 2500HD - stock Vortec 8.1 / ZF6 6spd (0411/8322)

  10. #25
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    For the patch to work only OS+cal data is needed.

    edit:
    Once the OS is flashed with the patch, than only CALdata writes are needed.

    So if you want to try the LRT bin, there is no need to repatch since the OS is the same and you need only caldata write.
    Clone is used only if you have a junkyard pcm and you want to make a mirror image of it, so all the learned stuff and vin is the same between the 2 pcms.
    Last edited by kur4o; 03-27-2020 at 08:59 PM.

  11. #26
    Fuel Injected! woody80z28's Avatar
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    Ok. Your one post in the other thread mentioned full flash and another said OS, so I just did a clone to be sure. I have two PCMs I'm swapping and hadn't patched the other one yet... that's how that all worked out the way it did. But I can clone back to my native BIN and then write the OS from your patch and caldata from there on out.
    80 Camaro Z28 - 550hp AFR 383 / T56 6spd (Holley HP EFI)
    91 Beretta "SS" - 260hp 3400 MPFI / HM282 5spd (7730/$A1)
    94 Silverado Z71 - 300hp Vortec 357 TBI / NV4500 5spd (7427/$0D) gone but not forgotten
    01 Silverado 2500HD - stock Vortec 8.1 / ZF6 6spd (0411/8322)

  12. #27
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    Hello gentlemen ... I will answer you both in this post.

    woody80z28 ... I should have laid out the ground rules for our collaboration, my apologies. Any Bin file that I post for you to try, PLEASE only flash the calibration portion. That you flashed the entire Bin that I posted (OS and Calibration) explains why the Crankshaft Variation Learn Data was lost (overwritten). I grabbed a PCM off the shelf, and flashed your VIN based calibration using a Mongoose cable. This PCM contained no Crankshaft Variation Learn Data, as it had never been in operation in a vehicle. This was to allow me to attack the PE problem using multiple tuning software.

    Disregard any of the previous Bins that I had posted, as PE stubbornly remained non-functional. I will have two more Bins for you to try shortly - using the Bin from your own PCM as the basis.


    kur4o ... Yes sir, I know my way around in the calibration coding of the P01 and P59 PCMs, E38, E67, T42, and T43 controllers. Over the years I have developed proprietary parameters, to meet the requests of customers, and to create a niche in the marketplace. With respect to understanding the OBD-II data stream, you will be light years ahead of me. I recall working on an ADX for the 512Kb PCM quite a few years ago. This was a basic ADX that someone else had started, and posted to the internet, and that I had then tried to create some additional PIDs. I recall only having limited success. It has been so long, that I would need to find my notes to get back up to speed.

  13. #28
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    The big tuning companies are missing some basic stuff in their definitions. They never put enough time to figure more than just the basics. Tons of parameters are not defined yet. As per the example for the PE on.

    If I managed to find the aldl datastream code, high speed logging one of these PCMs will real fun.

    Could it be a table for PE to be set at 14.7 and even it enters PE the AFr is at stoich all the time.


    But I can clone back to my native BIN and then write the OS from your patch and caldata from there on out.
    You can clone it back with the patch applied. Than caldata write only from there.

    It is really unclear for a lot of people how this clone OS and caldata work. There definitely needs to be some guide written about that.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by kur4o View Post
    ... Could it be a table for PE to be set at 14.7 and even it enters PE the AFr is at stoich all the time. ...
    Yes sir, it could indeed be a table similar to what you described. I am currently operating under the premise that it is likely a secondary delay timer - that is not normally used (except for 8.1L engines) - and that has not defined in any tuning software.

    The basis for my operating premise, is that some people who have dyno tuned these engines, claim that PE will enable after at least 30 seconds of WOT operation. These claims could be completely false, or the time relay could be longer than 30 seconds, or there could be some other factor at play.

    It certainly makes this endeavor a bit of an Easter Egg hunt.

  15. #30
    Fuel Injected! woody80z28's Avatar
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    Hopefully we can figure this out together. It'd be nice to help discover information rather than just consume it.
    80 Camaro Z28 - 550hp AFR 383 / T56 6spd (Holley HP EFI)
    91 Beretta "SS" - 260hp 3400 MPFI / HM282 5spd (7730/$A1)
    94 Silverado Z71 - 300hp Vortec 357 TBI / NV4500 5spd (7427/$0D) gone but not forgotten
    01 Silverado 2500HD - stock Vortec 8.1 / ZF6 6spd (0411/8322)

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