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Thread: Tunerpro RT $4F connection problems

  1. #1
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    Tunerpro RT $4F connection problems

    Hi Guys, I'm another newbie to this but working my way up the steep learning curve thanks to your help! I have a '91 350 TBI with a 1228747 comp. I've data logged with WinALDL using the 7747 because it doesn't have the 8747 option on it. While doing logging with WinALDL I found that I'm running pig rich with all my BLMs between 100 and 115. I had a custom chip burned for it a while back but when he burned it, I had a bad TPS (the voltage started dropping after half throttle) and a weak fuel pump (the pressure dropped from 12 psi to 9 under a load.) I also found from datalogging that I have a high knock count at 800 RPMs and the MAP at 65. Is this likely a false knock and is it retarding my timing? I don't know what my base timing is at but does the truck run the base timing at idle or only until it goes into closed loop? When he burned it, he did some soldering so I'm assuming I have the extra 2 pins now to use an EEPROM chip?? Do I just need to look on my chip for a number to see what I have?

    ANYWAY, I tried using the $4F mask files and other files found on here (thanks for your work on them) but I can't connect to tunerproRT with them. I am able to connect with the $42 mask files though. My other question is, when I am using TunerproRT I need to put the 10K resister between pins A and B on my ALDL cable but when I do it, my idle increases and stays about 500 higher. However, if I use WinALDL if I have the resister in that position, it doesn't read the BLMs, I have to have it in the "normal" position for it to read. Last question, does anyone have a recommendation, given what I have, for what to use to burn chips once I get to that point?

    Sorry this is so long, but I'm lost and have a lot of questions! Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    We had those $4F xdf and adx files working so I don't know what the issue is? No 10K... that will put it in ALDL mode. It's almost indentical to $42, one item differant.

    Until you read the bin file on chip only your tuner and God knows what's there?

    Base timing is what you set distributor at and then set it in bin, until you know what's in bin you should run stock 0 degrees with timing light and timing bypass wire disconnected. When connected it is computer controlled to timing table.

    For chips and burner and adapter look at Moates.net

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
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  3. #3
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    Thanks for the reply and all of your work on here! So can I just use the $42 files and everything should work fine? If I don't use the 10K, it won't connect to tunerpro or atleast I couldn't get it to.

    Do I need the chip burner to read the bin file on the chip or can I read it through tunerpro?

    I'll check my base timing as soon as I can get my hands on a timing light. The guy that burned my current chip never bothered to find out what my base timing was. He used his snap on scanner tool so I think he just adjusted my fuel tables and advanced my timing a little. In fact, like I said, he managed to burn it without realizing that my TPS was completely shot.

    I've been looking at the stuff on Moates but wasn't sure if there was something that you would recommend? Do I still need an adapter if the guy that tuned it already was doing some soldering on the ecm? He said he had to add a couple of pins to use a newer style chip... thats all I know. Thanks again!

  4. #4
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    This topic has come up recently about 10k for 160 Baud ECMs. Not sure about all 160 Baud ECMs but I just went and did some testing on my 1990 Chevy Suburban 1227747 $42 and 10k is not needed to start data flowing with a cable or the AutoProm. AutoProm in AutoProm Mode and Pass Through mode work fine with no 10k. Cable works fine with no 10k. Using 10k on AutoProm or cable puts ECM in ALDL mode which increases idle, spark and who knows what else making tuning and accurate data logging impossible.

    Also tried the $4F-1228747-LD-V1.1.adx‎ and it worked fine with no 10k and 10k put it in ALDL mode. There is a Light Duty (LD) and a Heavy Duty (HD) adx file for this ECM.

    Looked at ALDL files and no indication of 10k needed to start data flow.

    Using either of those ALDL files or the $42 file I doubt you would ever notice the difference?
    $42 = #6 HIGH BATTERY VOLTAGE
    $4F LD = #6 1ST TIME IDLE FLAG 0 = FIRST TIME
    $4F HD = #6 HIGH BATTERY VOLTAGE-DISABLE MCU SOLENOID DISCREETS

    If you can not get data to flow with your 1227787 ECM and the $4F file above then use 10k to start data then disconnect and let us know how it worked?

    You do need a burner to read the chip, if you get the Burn 2 or AutoProm from Moates they are built into TunerPro.

    If you have a modified chip installed in your ECM then chances are it can be plugged into a burner and erased and re programmed.

    My choice is the AutoProm. It is a chip burner, cable for data logging and an Emulator in one package. The Emulator lets you tune your bin file while open in TunerPro Real Time. When done burn a final chip. Since you already have a cable, if you only want to make small changes one at a time, burn chip and test/data log then a Burn 2 would do. But if you wanted to Emulate later then you would need an Ostrich as well. AutoProm is all three, cable, Burn 2 and Ostrich.

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
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  5. #5
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    you know what would possibly be a good project? taking any ECM that requires a 10K for whatever reason, removing the requirement from the algorithm and just having it stream full speed at all times.
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


  6. #6
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    I guess that would work. Don't know why it's there in the first place? Maybe to save processor speed?

    Don't even know what ECMs need it?

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
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    AFAIK, not that many... even in the C3 era, it seems not that many need it to start, let alone sustain, a datastream.

    the 1227165... i can see that one benefitting, but it also has all kinds of other issues, so IDK.
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


  8. #8
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    Thanks again for your help guys! Mark, I'll give that a try tomorrow and let you know how it goes. My truck is a heavy 3/4 ton so I used the HD adx, maybe I should have used the LD? I'll try some stuff tomorrow and report back.

    Whats the purpose of ALDL mode if you can't data log with it?

  9. #9
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duecepipes22 View Post
    Whats the purpose of ALDL mode if you can't data log with it?
    It's for diagnostics but I don't know what to use it for? I can diagnose anything without, so maybe I need to learn a new trick?

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
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    ALDL Mode... had to dig out the old books on that one since it's been so many years since I had to play with it.

    "ALDL (10K or Special) Mode (not used on all engines)
    In this mode, all information incorporated into a specific engine and ecm is obtainable. However, in this mode the system operating characteristics are modified as follows.
    ... Closed loop timers are bypassed
    ... EST (spark) is advanced
    ... IAC will will control engine idle to 1000 RPM +/- 50 rpm
    ... On some engines canister purge will be enabled
    ... P/N restrict functions will be disabled"

    As I remember it, we used ALDL mode in carbureted applications. You would do neat tricks back in the day like speed warmup along or search for vacuum leaks or force closed loop right away to start adjusting the computerized carburetor's rich and lean stop. Or you would crank the engine rpm up to 2500 so the exhaust manifolds would get red hot and burn the carbon off the O2 sensor and the plug tips. Remember that in those days we still diagnosed much of the car with a voltmeter and common sense. ALDL data on a CCC car was extremely slow and in road test mode it was sometimes limited or not available.

    Also, for a while you could force ALDL mode and get through sniffer emissions tests. Eventually the states caught on and would flag you if idle was too high. So you'd run it in ALDL mode at 2500 to get the cat and exhaust super hot then pull the connector and run the sniffer test right away.

    You can also put a 3.9K resistor across A and B to force the ecm to run in backup fuel if you're so inclined.

    Why the OP needs the 10k resistor is a mystery. I'd suspect the logger software/hardware combo, not the ecm, is at fault.
    Last edited by 1project2many; 05-20-2012 at 01:02 AM.

  11. #11
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    Well the only trick I think this would be helpful for would be dead of winter warm ups... or if you need data from a $6E Camaro... I can't beleive all that 10K resistors in cables have only caused me trouble and I have yet to need one!

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
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  12. #12
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    Well I reinstalled tunerpro and was able to connect with the $42 files without using the resistor however when I looked at my TPS% it read 28% at .55v so I think either there is a glitch in the file or the two are not completely compatible? I was still unable to connect with the $4f but I'm going to keep messing around with it. Any other suggestions?

  13. #13
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    Don't worry about the TPS % reading as it is just a conversion from voltage. Unless you installed the hack which would be accurate.

    Post the $4F adx file you have, no reason for it not to work, it is a simple 160 Baud conection same as $42.

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  14. #14
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    This is the file that I downloaded from here. I hope the attachment works.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  15. #15
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    It had one mistake, but so did the LD one I used yesterday? You can try this one. Like mentioned above for data logging only one byte of info differant the $42 and it's not even something you need. But $42 has lots of stuff specific to hacks from XDF and I have no idea if they would work on the 1227787 $4F...

    I wonder if it has to do with your hooking up with $42 then changing to $4F without disconnecting, changing file reconnecting?
    Attached Files Attached Files

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

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