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Thread: New looking for some advice 96 Lt1/4l60e in a 3rd Gen, running a 94-95 16188051

  1. #1
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    New looking for some advice 96 Lt1/4l60e in a 3rd Gen, running a 94-95 16188051

    I got my cable today, plugged it into the car and was able to download the Bin ( I think). I've got data, in tuner pro, I can see the descriptions, I can click and see the values, but I have nothing to compare it to.


    I'd like to see if someone would take my Bin and take a look at it and let me know if it looks tuned?


    Lt1 with a lt4 hot cam


    Car is a bit sensitive to being cold (dies at a stop sign). Seems to be running rich, or has been in the past, based on the fuel smell coming from the oil when I changed it. Plugs actually don't look bad, so I'm a tad confused.


    I was out looking for a basic LT4 hot cam tune, but the one I downloaded looks to be corrupt (I could at least do a compare to see what the differences are, if I could find one)


    I've got a ton of LT1 PCM tuning sites bookmarked and have been reading quite a bit.


    I'm using eehack, but have 3-4 different programs.


    I'm also not 100% sure what it means that I'm running a 1996 Engine with 1994/1995 code (based on the PCM numbering, or maybe it's just running 96 code in the 94/95 casing <I don't know!:))


    So any help would be appreciated.


    Thanks
    Tory

  2. #2
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    If you need something to compare it to, stock BINs are available for just about every car that had the 16188051 PCM.

    Your 1996 LT1/4L60E combo was an OBDII, which while able to be tuned, is far more expensive to tune than 94-95 due to gatekeeping by those who know how to do it. The hardware and software to flash the OBDII PCMs is in the hundreds of dollars, compared to a $70 cable and $0~$20 software for the 94-95. That's why people swap the 94-95 PCMs on, since they're electrically compatible. However, if you're an automatic, then there's a good chance your PCM is a 95 because there was a change to the 4L60E for 95-96 that makes the 94 PCM get mad (I believe it had to do with a PWM signal to a solenoid). So, if we assume that your PCM came from a '95 automatic, you should start your comparisons with the '95 auto Camaro and '95 auto Corvette BINs. They can be downloaded for free here:

    http://fbodytech.com/bin-files-2/bin-files/

    When you connect to the car with EEHack, what calibration ID is listed? If you're lucky, then whoever "tuned" your car (I have my doubts) left the calibration ID alone. If they did, you can actually download the exact factory BIN for your calibration and compare. I'm willing to bet they'll be identical and no actual tuning has occurred.

    If you want to know what an LT4 BIN reworked for a '95 PCM looks like, here it is: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...ll=1#post68545

    Best of luck to you!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by NomakeWan View Post
    If you need something to compare it to, stock BINs are available for just about every car that had the 16188051 PCM.

    Your 1996 LT1/4L60E combo was an OBDII, which while able to be tuned, is far more expensive to tune than 94-95 due to gatekeeping by those who know how to do it. The hardware and software to flash the OBDII PCMs is in the hundreds of dollars, compared to a $70 cable and $0~$20 software for the 94-95. That's why people swap the 94-95 PCMs on, since they're electrically compatible. However, if you're an automatic, then there's a good chance your PCM is a 95 because there was a change to the 4L60E for 95-96 that makes the 94 PCM get mad (I believe it had to do with a PWM signal to a solenoid). So, if we assume that your PCM came from a '95 automatic, you should start your comparisons with the '95 auto Camaro and '95 auto Corvette BINs. They can be downloaded for free here:

    http://fbodytech.com/bin-files-2/bin-files/

    When you connect to the car with EEHack, what calibration ID is listed? If you're lucky, then whoever "tuned" your car (I have my doubts) left the calibration ID alone. If they did, you can actually download the exact factory BIN for your calibration and compare. I'm willing to bet they'll be identical and no actual tuning has occurred.

    If you want to know what an LT4 BIN reworked for a '95 PCM looks like, here it is: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...ll=1#post68545

    Best of luck to you!
    Thank you very much :) Okay you hinted to some things, so I went out and figured out how to get the information:

    CAL ID# 16207161 . <-- And that doesn't show up anywhere, so maybe this has been tuned.
    VIN: 1G!BL52P8RR192664
    And The VIN well that's not obviously my car :) And interesting since it shows for a Caprice. And I was told it came from a 96 Firebird ( I have no reason to believe the motor/transmission didn't come from the 96 bird).

    I'll grab some of the bins and do a comparison inside tunerpro (I'm comfortable in tunerpro, as that is what I used to play with my Audi's. including WinOLS)

    Thanks again
    Tory

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivermoreDad View Post
    Thank you very much :) Okay you hinted to some things, so I went out and figured out how to get the information:

    CAL ID# 16207161 . <-- And that doesn't show up anywhere, so maybe this has been tuned.
    VIN: 1G!BL52P8RR192664
    And The VIN well that's not obviously my car :) And interesting since it shows for a Caprice. And I was told it came from a 96 Firebird ( I have no reason to believe the motor/transmission didn't come from the 96 bird).

    I'll grab some of the bins and do a comparison inside tunerpro (I'm comfortable in tunerpro, as that is what I used to play with my Audi's. including WinOLS)

    Thanks again
    Tory
    Actually, that calibration ID does exist:

    http://fbodytech.com/bin/index.html
    http://fbodytech.com/bin/EE_16207161.bin

    It's a 1994 B-body Automatic from a Caprice, with a 130 MPH speed limiter and no VATS.

    That's pretty odd--I was under the impression that all 1994 PCMs were incompatible with the 1996 4L60E due to the PWM issues.

    Go ahead and download that bin and compare. I think you'll find it's bone stock. ;)

    Also, please keep in mind that that's just where the COMPUTER came from. That's not where the engine and transmission came from. I'm sure it did in fact come from a '96 Firebird. The PCM, however, appears to be a stock PCM from a '94 Caprice (likely the cheapest option for whoever did the OBDI swap).

    EDIT: I did some reading and you may want to do some more investigating into your setup if you really do have a '96 Firebird 4L60E being run by a '94 Caprice PCM. As I thought, these are not compatible out of the box and require some very specific modifications in order to get right. The 95-96 4L60E does in fact have a second valve controlled by PWM going to the torque converter that was not in the '94. To get the '94 computer to make it operate properly, you have to physically add a wire to the wiring harness (this may already be done for you if your wiring harness was also from the '96 Firebird) and then swap to the code from a '95 (this was not done, according to your post above). It can also be "fixed" by staking the PWM valve in the fully-open position permanently...but while this "works," it also applies full line pressure to the torque converter lockup, which is over 150 PSI more than its design spec. This can cause the torque converter case to physically bend and can also damage the thrust bearings for the crankshaft on the engine. Even if this PWM valve is working correctly, because it was designed almost as an afterthought it has a nasty habit of wearing out the bore it sits in when it moves. There is a repair kit available from Sonnax (P/N 77754-03K) to correct this issue...or you could swap a '94 4L60E in, I suppose.

    In any event, looks like you have a bit of a project on your hands!
    Last edited by NomakeWan; 1 Week Ago at 11:35 PM.

  5. #5
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    Tory,

    An OBD1 pcm doesn't care if the .bin file is 94 or 95, only that it is OBD1. You can see from steveo's collection how many different OEM LT1 variants have been verified. [It will probably never be quite complete, there are many export .bin files missing].

    For starters, overwrite the 94 Caprice 9C1-VZ2 .bin file in your pcm, with a 95 Camaro or Firebird .bin file, and use THAT henceforth.
    I canNOT stress this enough: Use a 1995 .bin file, NOT a 1994 .bin file. Far easier than swapping in a '94 4L60E.
    THEY are NOT Lying to You. You are Not Lying to Yourself. You are Being Lied to - BY Your Self Alone

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeMarky Dissod View Post
    Tory,

    An OBD1 pcm doesn't care if the .bin file is 94 or 95, only that it is OBD1. You can see from steveo's collection how many different OEM LT1 variants have been verified. [It will probably never be quite complete, there are many export .bin files missing].

    For starters, overwrite the 94 Caprice 9C1-VZ2 .bin file in your pcm, with a 95 Camaro or Firebird .bin file, and use THAT henceforth.
    I canNOT stress this enough: Use a 1995 .bin file, NOT a 1994 .bin file. Far easier than swapping in a '94 4L60E.

    Okay will do that next. Car is under the knife right now, lots of various bits. But I'll def go hunting for the right files, change the gear ratio etc. I appreciate everyones willingness to help a newb. I know it's 2019 and a lot of this is old hat, but again appreciate you taking the time

    Tory

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeMarky Dissod View Post
    Tory,

    An OBD1 pcm doesn't care if the .bin file is 94 or 95, only that it is OBD1. You can see from steveo's collection how many different OEM LT1 variants have been verified. [It will probably never be quite complete, there are many export .bin files missing].

    For starters, overwrite the 94 Caprice 9C1-VZ2 .bin file in your pcm, with a 95 Camaro or Firebird .bin file, and use THAT henceforth.
    I canNOT stress this enough: Use a 1995 .bin file, NOT a 1994 .bin file. Far easier than swapping in a '94 4L60E.
    Or do what I do with every 4L60E in existance. TransGo HD2 kit and delete the PWM. Far easier on the converter clutch. Its never deformed a converter on anything I have setup. Also it seems like it woupd be hard to have 150 psi of line pressure when the whole trans is probably under 100 psi while cruising at lower rpm.
    Last edited by Fast355; 1 Week Ago at 12:03 PM.

  8. #8
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    It's easy to see if it's a 96 engine. Look for the crank sensor at the bottom right of the timing chain cover. Also, aluminum heads would indicate a F-body or Vette engine.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fast355 View Post
    Or do what I do with every 4L60E in existance. TransGo HD2 kit and delete the PWM. Far easier on the converter clutch. Its never deformed a converter on anything I have setup. Also it seems like it woupd be hard to have 150 psi of line pressure when the whole trans is probably under 100 psi while cruising at lower rpm.

    Still should start with a 95 F-body bin for a 96 F-body engine regardless of modifying the transmission or not.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by lionelhutz View Post
    It's easy to see if it's a 96 engine. Look for the crank sensor at the bottom right of the timing chain cover. Also, aluminum heads would indicate a F-body or Vette engine.





    Still should start with a 95 F-body bin for a 96 F-body engine regardless of modifying the transmission or not.
    I do not see the need. Cams changed for 96 anyway.

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