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Thread: 94 Buick RoadMaster Estate Wagon LT 1 issues

  1. #31
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    Vilefly, I’ll try and follow your suggestions.

    Since I got the car I have used it to go to work. It’s about 45 miles depending on route each way. 95% highway cruising. Traffic often goes 75-80 for about 20 miles. Then about 55-60 the rest of the way. There are a couple miles at the start and end of city driving so. There is a long grade about 6-7 miles. I don’t know the elevation but traffic still goes 75+ up it. The car could do this easy and I was a left lane cruiser everyday. So it got lots of fast lane use for the first 6k miles. Then the issues started. It never over heated the gage stayed dead center, it never burn or lost oil, never used coolant. Basically a perfect highway cruiser. I was very happy with it.
    Then it developed a miss, slight but it caused a lack of power and the converter and trans acted up. Dropping out of lock up then out of OD. I thought the trans was the issue. I went to 5 well known shops and all wanted expensive trans repairs. However I was suspicious since I was driving the car everyday and had begun knowing it. So I asked if this would definitely fix the issue. They all said the trans was the issue but said the motor was fine. I wasn’t buying this besides there was no guarantee they problem would be fixed.

    So I looked for good shops with OBD 1 scanners. Few had them. Some wanted to charge me to upgrade their stuff. Forget it. I finally found the shop I’m at. He also does trans. He had it for a day and really flogged it. He said the trans was perfect but there were issues with the motor.
    Long story short, step by step issues were addressed before a really complete scan of the motor operating was done. The Opti Spark was full of oil and caused ignition issues. Bad oil seal. It was replaced with new old stock unit. Along with wires and plugs.
    And so on, everything was done with discussion of why this or that needed fixing. Bottom line is today there is nothing showing on his scans and mine using EEHACK except for low manifold vac.

    There is no real anti freeze smell, no oil smoke, just a random puttering in the right exhaust. Scans show the front cyl and the back two on the right bank dead rich. BLM maxed out. The plugs on the right bank are all fluffy black but not packed. We have replaced them three times already.

    So we spent an hour discussing where to go. I have to give him credit for being patient with me and not over charging me. I know he needs to make a living so his time is of value. I have no choice but have someone do my work as I simply do not have a place to work on cars.

    I’m at a loss now so depending on others who really know this system. I’m trying to learn too. In some cases tests simply need to not be done and just fix a suspected problem. Certainly not the best way but economics enter too. I hate this but it’s less Expensive to just do it and look at the cause afterward. Certainly a poor way of doing things.

    If you scan this thing with a parts store scanner it will show nothing wrong. It takes something that scans deeper so enter the SnapOn or Matco or EEHACK. And now we see an issue. Every attempt has failed to fix this. Certainly some were unnecessary. I know this and have to accept this.

    We now are at perhaps what should have been done earlier position. Were it a carb the manifold gaskets would have been replaced early on....I think. I would have done this myself based on carb experience.

    So maybe by late tomorrow I’ll know what happens. Even this I still have misgivings. I can’t imagine real hard parts failing this way. The switching side for side of the problem keeps coming up. But now with the intake issue “fixed” it may point some other direction.

    I don’t like making long post but I like to present the issue as complete as possible.

    I did try to post my scans but I simply can’t from my iPad and down here on the boat our WIFI is very unstable. I’ll take my laptop up to my sons this weekend and see if I can work something out.

    I know y’all are trying to help out so thanks again. I’m listening ...reading.

    Byron





    Last edited by Bentwings; 09-05-2019 at 08:07 PM.

  2. #32
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    I would like to state for the record that I said test the manifold, and not replace anything yet. The small block chevy, prior to the CPI vortec motors, seldom had intake manifold gasket failures when the OEM gaskets were used. When they eliminated the center bolts for the manifold, things began to fail. There is a slight possibility that the gasket rotted out from underneath the metal edges of the ports, but it doesn't happen often. Just make sure the rest of the manifold ports and gaskets are sealing, too.

    Hopefully, there is not a constant hissing sound from the brake booster when you hold down the brake. A leaking brake booster can skew things, too.

  3. #33
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    I have not checked the brake booster but I’ll do that. The brakes are very good on this big car. Very light pedal.
    The motor doesn’t make much noise even with the hood open. I have heard no “hissy” sounds at all. I’ll have to ask as I don’t remember. Early on the EGR was looked at and serviced if not replaced. There was a problem with the vacuum line or something. I’ll ask him.

    I missed calling him Fri so I called today....no done, finish tomorrow. He is really busy I know that so I’m trying to be patient. The weather is turning early I think this year. Miserably cold and driving cold rain and wind today. Got soaked then had to go back out and snap down the rear canvas on the boat.

    I still have an uneasy feeling thatbthis gasket job isn’t going to fix it. I’ll be totally lost. I asked him to take a look at the valve action, possibly a flat cam. Also look down the ports of use the bore scope at the intake valves and see if they may be really carboned up. I’ve seen some really bad ones that only caused a little loss of power.

    So more later.

    Byron

  4. #34
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    Long story short I wasn’t able to contact him until this morning.
    The intake is still on and he hasn’t don’t anything productive. I should be fuming by now maybe a melt down is in order. However I need this car, shortly winter is coming and I don’t want the el Camino in the salt bath winter, besides its nearly as bad as my truck for traction.

    So he wants to do more external stuff. What the H ..... more can be done? I’m going to go out there shortly it’s a long drive but I can go to the shop where I work just down the road and make Something for my boat I need the time on the boat more than chasing this car.

    I’m going to ask to remove the valve covers and check over the valve train as close as possible. Valve seals are not real easy to see but possibly they can be seen better with his fancy bore scope. If a doc. can see inside my a.... surely a snap on scope can get close to the valve springs and seals. Next watch and observe the valve action. Flat cam? Don’t think so but failed lifters maybe. The ‘scope may be able to be poked in the casting openings to look over the top of the lifters.
    Next I was out with my dog and thought maybe by pulling the injectors it would be possible to look down this hole right at the valve. They maybe massively carboned up. It only had 100k miles when I got it so in 25 years so that’s only 4 k a year.
    I want to revisit the EGR from the note above. I don’t think the knock sensors have been looked at or were ok according to the scans. Also I want to do the BLM reset by disconnecting the battery. There was another test that was quicker. I’ll request we try that too.

    Question here, with EEHACK, the BLM can’t be reset. So by disconnecting the battery does this enable a reset or is it automatically reset? Do I need to disconnect my OBD 1 cord during this process?

    I also want to do another scan with EEHACK on my lap top. Speaking of which I need to be able to send these by email. I’ll swing by the Apple Store and see why I can’t do this.

    Digressing a moment, I was in the hospital ICU after a fall in the snow. I had blood on the brain. It was a very hard fall, face plant. The doc said I know what happened but there should not have been a couple symptoms I noted during the operation. I’m going to do an angiogram to look further. Normally you would be clear to recover but I don’t like these things and I need to do more work. Then asked for the usual signature. He went ahead then showed me what he found and repaired. It was so small he needed a microscope on the probe to see it. But this is what is lacking in auto repair shops today.

    That’s not many trips to the grocery store and it was never driven in the winter. So these are tests that I dreamed up in the last hour and a half with my dog.

    Now it’s not a lot of RR but a lot of screwing around testing “is it this or that” then find the intake is still questionable. Taking the intake off is part of a valve job so it's already partway there, if looking in the ports and a problem is seen you can continue with productive work. You should be able to identify leaking gaskets external or internal probably both. I’d say do this. Then if it doesn’t fix it then were I the mech I’d have to tell the customer that “I give up, we have done everything, tried not to throw parts or work at it, but the problem persists. I simply do not have the extra knowledge to fix this, let me help you find someone else.” I would respect this instead of ongoing, “ didn’t get to it today, have it done tomorrow, multiple times”.

    I m searching the local area for another shop too. Frankly most are rip off places, there are few really honest places. Most will not listen to what has been done nor thoroughly scan and check things. I found this with the trans. shops I originally visited. I also asked my streetrod friends where they go and why. Many no longer do a lot of work on their cars as their health simply does not permit this labor.

    I want to revisit about everything you guys have noted above. Either myself or with external help.

    I just looked at a new Edelbrock ProFlo 4. It’s been a very good system with good tech support. It would be a stretch to install this, just dreaming.

    Thanks everyone for the help. I hope this thing gets fixed soon.

    Byron

  5. #35
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    Did I miss the part where you did compression and leakdown tests?

    If so, what were the results?

    Also, using eehack or the shop's scanner, what are the injector open times on each bank?

  6. #36
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    I think he's too busy dodging invisible bats and manta rays all swooping and diving about the roadmaster. Don't worry. We will start seeing them soon enough. What he is going through is why I had to become a mechanic.....so I wouldn't have to depend upon fools with tools.

  7. #37
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    i just decided in general not to let other people touch my shit if i can avoid it. house, bikes, cars, electronics, construction, anything. these days anyone can learn anything if they have a clue, and the more fundamental knowledge you get, the more you can do with less effort. there are very few exceptions that i'll make

    people that throw a car at a mechanic and just let them go wild deserve what they get. if i hired a professional mechanic and they misdiagnosed a part replacement, i would demand that the old part was reinstalled and the bill doesn't reflect that unprofessional, uninformed, unskilled mistaken diagnosis.

    i work in marine mechanical where most shops around here say diagnosis is approx a one hour charge no matter what the issue. if the issue is complex we use oscilloscopes with a multitude of probes, we break out handheld FLIR cameras, throw borescopes in holes, and then apply the knowledge of everyone in the shop in figuring out what's actually wrong, and when we are incorrect we go 'ohh cool! we learned something' and our client (not customer) is not responsible.

  8. #38
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    I wouldn't have thought it possible, but I just gained a newfound level of respect for you steveo. Other than one (out of four) alignment job(s) and having tires mounted I've allowed no-one to touch my stuff for going on 15 years now for the exact same reason(s). The semi-annual safety inspection was something of a show until I found a local mechanic who understood I did all my own wrench work and wasn't amused to hear a "you need a new PCM" diagnoses.

    Regardless, I fear common sense and altruism are continuing to die a slow death. I knew this process had become irreversible when I found out that GM dealers were charging customers 4 to 6 shop hours to replace headlamp bulbs on their lambda body vehicles.

  9. #39
    LT1 specialist steveo's Avatar
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    Regardless, I fear common sense and altruism are continuing to die a slow death. I knew this process had become irreversible when I found out that GM dealers were charging customers 4 to 6 shop hours to replace headlamp bulbs on their lambda body vehicles.
    that's so awesome, in four hours i could change every light bulb in every vehicle i own including dashboard, and i bet you could too

    they need to keep their doors open somehow, right?

  10. #40
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    Hopefully today will be the day.
    I spent another hour on the phone going over all that has been done. Sorry to say but I have to take some responsibility for replacing suspect parts. Since I have to pay him for time, most instances it’s simply quicker to replace a part rather than test it or put in a different position. Even adding the cost of parts. In each case we have weighed this. This car/motor has been completely unresponsive to virtually every thing done to it. All parts replaced have been OEM no aftermarket stuff. My feeling is that this car is bone stock, millions of these motors have been produced and there are lots still on the road with little maintenance. Plus many have been very successfully hotrodded.

    So in the last week everything has been reviewed, even a brand new scanner was used. Additionally the vac brake booster line was inspected for leaks but it is like new, the EGR is function as it is supposed to, each vac line has been looked at, the Opti was looked at and there is spark every time and firing order is correct. Plug wires are new and not contacting anything to cause shorting. Once again one side of the exhaust was disconnected then the other then both. Both cats are new. O2 sensors were switched to satisfy both are working correctly. The intake system was reviewed and is in excellent condition. MAF sensor is ok. We even put in another new air filter.

    Then the valve covers were removed and the upper valve train checked for broken or damaged springs, everything is operating good with no noise and the valve lift seems even. Then the injectors were removed again and a bore scope was used to check for carbon build up in the ports or on the valves or anything else causing issues. The idle speed is steady at the spec rpm. The motor itself does not miss, it is just rich causing the fuel ti ignite in the cat. It’s not regular and only on one side, right.

    The car does not burn oil or lose coolant. It’s dry underneath.

    He was about to R&R the intake when I called Wed. Frankly, I have an uneasy feeling this is not going to help. The comment above about replacing the entire EFI unit with a known good one intrigues me. I passingly mentioned this earlier.

    One question that remains on my mine is the possibility of a bad wire or wires somewhere in the system. Everything is connectorized to creat a new word so it is not exactly easy to single out a wire. I suppose I could go to the you pull and see if I could find an identical wire harness. Possibly install it and hopefully the problem would go away. With that harness it would be possible to cut and splice wires in hopes of finding the problem. If the intake R&R fails to fix the problem I may just take the car to my sons shop where I can work on it. It’s over 60 miles each way so the drive will not be fun after a day or two. But cost wise it may be my only alternative. The question is....how interchangeable are wire harnesses. For example Would a 94 Camaro or Firebird harness be acceptable? How about a 94 Caprice sedan or car? Actually if the harness swap worked I’d be more inclined to leave it alone an just use it.

    If I take the car back I’ll rescan it with my EEHACK. I have four early scans but I can’t send them off this IPad. The lap top does work on the internet but I need a reliable WIFI connection which I don’t have here on the marina.

    Regarding local marine mechanics. They have been totally unreliable and very expensive. I do all of my boat repairs....it’s like living in a garage. It may not be easy but at least I don’t have to go anywhere to work on it. Boats are another world altogether. The wiring can be unbelievable.

    Once again I really appreciate the help
    Byron
    Last edited by Bentwings; 09-27-2019 at 05:29 PM.

  11. #41
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    When you changed the injectors, did the orings get changed? Those pieces of rubber are now old enough to drink, but they are often overlooked.

    When you changed the plugs, did you also change the wires? If you did, were the plug wires' heatshields put back on properly? I for one think all 8 of them should have heatshields.

    When you changed the Opti-Spark, did you also change the Opti-snorkel? If the Vent & Vacuum Harness is bad, no Opti-Spark connected to it will work well for very long. Then after resting a while, it'll work again for a while until it fills with ozone again, and so on.

    If your inlet manifold is removed, after it gets cleaned, but BEFORE it is reinstalled, soak it again, then use compressed air on the idle air passages that run from the IAC passage under the two main throttle holes.
    Or just force whatever cleaning solution is being used thru the IAC hole until it sprays out the other eight ends.

    The Idle Air Controller feeds the smaller hole underneath the two larger main holes, and follow paths parallel to the main runners underneath them, emptying into each respective cylinder's runner near the very end of their respective paths.

    So far, I have not seen a single LT1 inlet manifold that has had its idlespider properly cleaned during a socalled cleaning. I've also never seen a single pic of any LT1 inlet manifold that clearly shows the ends of the idle air paths.

    Probably not a bad idea to clean out the EGR and PCV passages too.

    Hope this helps.
    THEY are NOT Lying to You.
    You are NOT Even Lying to Yourself.
    You ARE Being Lied to ... by Your SELF.
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  12. #42
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    Yes, new orings were installed.
    Yes new plugs and wires installed, heat shields reinstalled and positioned not to be close to boots or wires.
    Yes, new Opti installed, new vac tube....old one was oil soaked. So was old Opti. New oil seal installed.

    Thanks for the manifold tip. I didn’t know of these passages. I’ve not seen anyone else mention them. I passed this info onto the shop.

    The shop closed early Fri so I missed then. I should hear Mon or Tues.

  13. #43
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    Yep, we charge 1 hr for diagnosis, and we make sure we are correct, or no charge for the erroneous part installed. Don't know how other shops get away with it and stay in business. If we have to chase down a fault in the wiring harness, it is a separate flat rate charge not to exceed 1hr without notifying the customer. Seldom takes more than an hour anyways. Now, if the customer tells us what part to replace, we do not guarantee results....ever. If I do not concur with a customer's diagnosis, I let them know it before work proceeds. I just don't like wasting time arguing with certain types of people that annoy everyone around them in their quest for vanity.

  14. #44
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    I bet you have a cracked exhaust manifold. Much cheaper to change than trying to diagnose.
    Don`t go to the daunted mistery alient wire strategy. It is pure waste of time and effort.
    The only time I have seen topped blms were when there is alot of fresh air in the exhaust or there is heavy gasket failure with coolant in the cylinders leading to flase readings..

  15. #45
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    I really appreciate all the advise. The info on the idle air passages is of particular note. Somewhere I asked how the and where the idle air passage was. I have never seen a picture of the right side of the intake. I’ve been blown off when questioning the idle air function and how it evenly distributes the air. When the idle air goes through the metered controller then is directed to each port in the proper amount is quite amazing. The usual comment is that if the scanner says the idle air is within limits,it’s ok. But above indicates that it’s possible, maybe likely that these manifold passages are blocked or restricted. I sure would like to see the bare manifold. We’re i doing the work it would be boiled clean or otherwise carefully cleaned. Transmission shops have great cleaning machines. Our boiling tank was banned by the EPA many years ago.

    Since I’ve moved to the boat and marina I simply can not do my own work on cars. I do service my boat myself. To side track a moment, I’ve installed a new AC unit, repaired the anchor winch, replaced the sliding cabin door tracks and rollers and added a support roller, repaired nav lights, built a step for the transom exit doorway, built a swim platform riser so it’s flush with the dock, added new dock lines including splicing the loops., cleaned and repaired the water system, built a new cabin table, changed oil and filters on both motors and vee drive transmissions, pumped the bottom of the fuel tank free of water, and winterized the entire boat last year. This year I won’t have to as I’m living on it, currently I’m installing a winter heater. So I’m not opposed to getting my hands dirty. My boat is my shop now.

    We have looked for a cracked exhaust manifold. We looked from the top and from underneath on the hoist for this early on. I would think you could hear it, as quiet as the motor runs. The pipe that holds the O2 sensor has been replaced on both sides. We have removed them twice looking for leaks but they are clean and tight.

    Vilefly, I’d gladly pay you to look at this car. As big as this town is and as many hotrodders there are, there really are not many really good shops that can get right into the nitty gritty of a problem like this. I’ve been blown off so many times that I just don’t even care to deal with them. I’m not the easiest customer to deal with but I do require straight up work. I will not be part of a “shop project car” that sits for months on end with nothing done. I require a finish date. But when the work is completed and the result is not fixed then we need discussion about where to proceed. He has been very good about this and not charged for a lot of testing and diagnostics.

    We are going to revisit the exhaust manifolds if the intake cleaning does not fix it. A good many connectors will be separated so possibly something might show up there.
    Last edited by Bentwings; 09-30-2019 at 08:42 PM.

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