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Thread: introduction from (to?) California

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave w View Post
    Does a California Referee open up the computer to verify the correct code on the PROM Chip? Have you searched A1 Cardone for PROM Chips? Would an aftermarket STOCK PROM Chip be CARB Legal?

    A1 Cardone: http://www.cardone.com/products/elec...les-prom-chips

    http://www.cardone.com/find-parts/ve...wood&year=1993

    dave w

    Attachment 14130
    They didn't even look at my ECM as it was behind my glove box. I passed without a california prom (ARJT) as the visual inspection was the more complicated part. What I've noticed about the California proms is that all the timing is taken out and there is a higher EGR duty cycle. The only way I see the prom being an issue is during the sniffer test if it has a higher NOx reading, but even the leaner higher timing prom I used passed.....

    For the OP
    -Just keep all the stock sensors (I wired in a 3 wire O2 sensor that the smog ref liked seeing)
    -Get a Catalytic converter with the EO for the engine you're using
    -You need a VSS sensor with an EO like Jags that run https://jagsthatrun.com/collections/speed-sensors
    -Get the charcoal canister from the vehicle you get the motor from
    -Get stock exhaust manifolds or headers with an EO
    -Use the Stock air cleaner from the engine you're using
    -Have the exhaust done at any california exhaust shop and they'll take care of the exhaust issues.

    It really isn't that hard to get the engine Swap done and accepted, maybe it was my local area that made it a little easier, but it really isn't that bad.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave w View Post
    I don't know why, I don't work for A1 Cardone or work for Rock Auto. Perhaps a phone call to A1 Cordone technical support would yield the requested information asked above.

    The last time I purchased a chip from A1 Cardone (1986 Grand Am) was in 1998. As I recall, the chip I received had an A1 Cardone part number on it, not a factory BCC label. The 86 Grand Am uses a 2732 Chip (Type 3 in A1 Cardone Product Link). Starting in the late 80's GM incorporated the 27C256 & 27C512 chip inside the Memcal (Types 1 & 2 in the A1 Cardone Product Link). Perhaps for vehicle applications with Memcals, A1 Cardone only provides matching BCC Memcals?

    Some gearhead-efi members, that have chip programming equipment, can reprogram a chip incorporated in the Memcal. For some gearhead-efi members finding the BCC .bin file for a specific vehicle application is all that is required to complete the project. The gearhead-efi BCC .bin library has helped many members since the site started! Admittedly not all BCC .bin files used by GM are in the gearhead-efi library.

    BCC .bin files can purchased from TunerCats, but requires a VIN for the specific vehicle application. My most recent BBC .bin purchase ($25) from TunerCats was for a Fiero project (Cadillac 4.9 liter engine swap).

    dave w
    See post #29, just above yours.

    Cardone reman ECMs come with Cardone labels and part numbers, not original. The same would be true for PROMs. Obviously I cannot speak for 1998. But the Cardone web site is very clear: any chips they would have would have to come from ECM cores. Which is why they don't have any.

    I'll look at TunerCats. Problem there would be, what if the Referee wants to open the ECM?
    Last edited by jiho; 04-14-2019 at 02:15 AM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by c5wagner View Post
    They didn't even look at my ECM as it was behind my glove box. I passed without a california prom (ARJT) as the visual inspection was the more complicated part. What I've noticed about the California proms is that all the timing is taken out and there is a higher EGR duty cycle. The only way I see the prom being an issue is during the sniffer test if it has a higher NOx reading, but even the leaner higher timing prom I used passed.....

    For the OP
    -Just keep all the stock sensors (I wired in a 3 wire O2 sensor that the smog ref liked seeing)
    -Get a Catalytic converter with the EO for the engine you're using
    -You need a VSS sensor with an EO like Jags that run https://jagsthatrun.com/collections/speed-sensors
    -Get the charcoal canister from the vehicle you get the motor from
    -Get stock exhaust manifolds or headers with an EO
    -Use the Stock air cleaner from the engine you're using
    -Have the exhaust done at any california exhaust shop and they'll take care of the exhaust issues.

    It really isn't that hard to get the engine Swap done and accepted, maybe it was my local area that made it a little easier, but it really isn't that bad.
    Sounds encouraging, but when did you have that experience? Things may have gotten tougher lately, but I'm not personally familiar and you hear all kinds of stories. It may vary with location in the state.
    Last edited by jiho; 04-14-2019 at 02:17 AM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiho View Post
    Sounds encouraging, but when did you have that experience? Things may have gotten tougher lately, but I'm not personally familiar and you hear all kinds of stories. It may vary with location in the state.
    I'm in socal and just got through all this 2 or 3 months ago. I'm definitely in a smog area and in San Bernardino county if that is important.

  5. #35
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    I also forgot to mention that it helps if you have the VIN of the donor vehicle you get the engine or parts from and make sure you have a park/neutral switch for an auto or a switch where you have to push in the clutch to start if manual. And when you go in, don't call it an engine swap but an engine change, the smog refs don't know the ins and outs of all vehicles so there is a lot that will go unnoticed as long as everything "looks" right, you provide a bunch of EO approved numbers for parts you installed and you pass the sniffer test.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave w View Post
    BCC .bin files can purchased from TunerCats, but requires a VIN for the specific vehicle application. My most recent BBC .bin purchase ($25) from TunerCats was for a Fiero project (Cadillac 4.9 liter engine swap).
    Where? I just went there, and didn't find any mention of BINs for sale.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by c5wagner View Post
    the smog refs don't know the ins and outs of all vehicles so there is a lot that will go unnoticed as long as everything "looks" right, you provide a bunch of EO approved numbers for parts you installed and you pass the sniffer test.
    That's been my impression. The official published guidelines now say the following:

    "3. Certification Type - The certification type (California or Federal certification) of the engine and recipient vehicle must be the same or, if not, the engine must adhere to the more stringent standard. For example, a California certified engine may installed in a Federal vehicle but a Federal engine may not be installed in a California vehicle. Proof of the certification type from the manufacturer or CARB EO of the donor engine must be provided at the time of the engine change inspection at the Referee."

    Naturally my car is California certified, so this is why I'm quibbling the point. I figure I should try to stick to an engine that has an EO in their archive that I can download and print out, so I can just hand it to the Referee. And that it would be safest to have the correct PROM installed to match.

    I have no idea what "Proof of the certification type from the manufacturer" would mean.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiho View Post
    I have no idea what "Proof of the certification type from the manufacturer" would mean.
    A California Emissions label, or I used a picture of the emissions label I got my motor from myself. See the picture below showing California stuff below....
    IMAG0378.jpg

  9. #39
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    That of course could be a problem if you were putting a motor together from parts, lol.

    Anyway, another part of my problem is I want to use my choice of tranny, and especially stay away from computer-controlled trannies. This is not just psychological, around here computer-controlled trannies are probably the #1 cause of craigslist postings. The "bleeding edge" motor that would pass my test on this would be a '93 LT1, which has an EO, but of course is hard to find.
    Last edited by jiho; 04-14-2019 at 04:51 AM.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by c5wagner View Post
    I'm in socal and just got through all this 2 or 3 months ago. I'm definitely in a smog area and in San Bernardino county if that is important.
    That seems like a fairly stringent area, and certainly recent. Your Jeep is probably a truck registration, though, right? And you swapped in a truck motor? They probably don't worry as much about trucks as they do about cars.

    I'm way up in the north end in a 2-speed idle county (Shasta). As I understand it, the Referee here would give a swap a dyno test though.
    Last edited by jiho; 04-14-2019 at 04:49 AM.

  11. #41
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    So, not only did dave w remove some of his own posts, he also removed my post that mentioned the fact, and selectively edited my post #22 replying to someone else to remove mention of the subject matter of his removed posts. It would at least help avoid confusion if my responses #19 and #20 to his removed posts were also removed. In any case, I'm reconsidering my participation in this site. This is an Orwellian environment, of a different aspect to what we deal with here in California. We all go off on tangents from time to time, there's no reason for any of this.
    Last edited by jiho; 04-14-2019 at 05:40 AM.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiho View Post
    That of course could be a problem if you were putting a motor together from parts, lol.

    Anyway, another part of my problem is I want to use my choice of tranny, and especially stay away from computer-controlled trannies. This is not just psychological, around here computer-controlled trannies are probably the #1 cause of craigslist postings. The "bleeding edge" motor that would pass my test on this would be a '93 LT1, which has an EO, but of course is hard to find.
    I just took a picture of the label of an 89 k1500 from some random truck "that I pulled my motor from" at the pick and pull. Same year or newer right lol?

    Quote Originally Posted by jiho View Post
    That seems like a fairly stringent area, and certainly recent. Your Jeep is probably a truck registration, though, right? And you swapped in a truck motor? They probably don't worry as much about trucks as they do about cars.

    I'm way up in the north end in a 2-speed idle county (Shasta). As I understand it, the Referee here would give a swap a dyno test though.
    What's different about the cars, a smog pump and air temperature sensor? Not a big deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by jiho View Post
    So, not only did dave w remove some of his own posts, he also removed my post that mentioned the fact, and selectively edited my post #22 replying to someone else to remove mention of the subject matter of his removed posts. It would at least help avoid confusion if my responses #19 and #20 to his removed posts were also removed. In any case, I'm reconsidering my participation in this site. This is an Orwellian environment, of a different aspect to what we deal with here in California. We all go off on tangents from time to time, there's no reason for any of this.
    From my perspective, just seems some irrelevance and misinformation was cleared up or removed. Makes it much easier for future people in your situation to get the info they need.....

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by c5wagner View Post
    I just took a picture of the label of an 89 k1500 from some random truck "that I pulled my motor from" at the pick and pull. Same year or newer right lol?
    I just came back to comment on this. Neither a label nor an EO is "proof" of anything, just your statement that a piece of paper applies to your swap. A piece of paper with info that tells the Referee what he's supposed to look at to inspect it.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by c5wagner View Post
    From my perspective, just seems some irrelevance and misinformation was cleared up or removed. Makes it much easier for future people in your situation to get the info they need.....
    Well now that's putting a positive spin on it!

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by c5wagner View Post
    Went to the pick and pull and pulled one out of the same year k1500 and all was good second time around.
    This has me wondering. I can see how you might get a Pick-n-Pull motor out of the donor. How do you then roll that 600+ lbs all the way out over all that deep gravel to the point where you can load it into your vehicle to haul it home?

    B-bodies with LO3s are available, and every year has an EO. Sure it's substantially less torque, but only 10 hp less than an LO5 ....

    Amazing how pathetic your thinking can get ....
    Last edited by jiho; 04-14-2019 at 08:26 AM.

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