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Thread: introduction from (to?) California

  1. #61
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    I went back and found those two listings. Missed them before. Thanks!

    I dunno about the BFYZ "manual hearse" (what TunerCAT's CalData says), but I submitted an inquiry about that, as well as the BCWZ. When I don't get replies I'll try phoning.

    BTW, both of those are listed in the CARB EO, so the BCWZ at least would work for me.

    I'm betting the BFYZ is for a TH400 tranny, which had no TCC lockup, no 4th gear let alone 4th gear switch, and hence no wires to the computer. That wouldn't work very well for me.
    Last edited by jiho; 6 Days Ago at 03:21 AM.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post
    A search for an engine computer for a 1993 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham with a 350 produces three listings. Two of the three listings include BCC in the description. The BCC's match up with GM's list of Cali certified Cadillac Brougham calibrations.
    You snuck up on me while I was editing #59.

  3. #63
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    The list I included in my first post shows the calibration options GM felt relevant to include. I'm surprised that Tunercat shows BFYZ with the hearse option, as we used the same database for our information and my listing specifically says without hearse. I have also made sure not to interpret the transmission type incorrectly when no transmission type is listed. BFYZ does not indicate transmission type.

    BCC= BFYZ3920 Scan id= 3781 Part number= 16193919
    Release date= 03/09/93 Engine size= 5.7 Trans Type= all/no listing
    ECM/PCM: ECM #16159280
    Used in cars: Cadillac
    Possibly used in:
    FLEETWOOD BROUGHAM

    Options:
    Without B9Q CONVERSION, HEARSE
    With GT4 AXLE, REAR, 3.73 RATIO
    With L05 5.7L GAS 8 CYL (5.7K) V8 TBI
    With NB2 CALIFORNIA REQUIREMENTS
    Without V4U EQUIPMENT COACHBUILDER (NOT TO EXCEED 7200 LBS)

    It's a real long shot, but if we can get a VIN from a vehicle with BFYZ then we may be able to confirm transmission type.
    Unfortunately the yard with BFYZ doesn't appear to have any other parts available.

    Edit: One online site for checking calibrations by VIN is here. Use 1G6DW5278PR727161 with automatic transmission and California emissions and you will be presented with a list of potential calibrations for which you can get further information. Unfortunately this page appears to list the same information that I have access to. There can be gold to be found, sometimes, in checking a calibration history as I do not have that information.

    There is another site which will provide complete build sheets but it is a pay for service: https://www.compnine.com/vid.php. I believe it is very reasonably priced but only you can decide if the time spent scouring the 'net for VIN's then plugging them into a decoder is worth the effort.

  4. #64
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    I'm assuming TH400 for BFYZ. It rings a bell that the L05 had that option. Of course no replies.

    Anyway, the truck L05 has 9.3:1 compression, where the car has 9.8. You could use the truck long block, but it is what it is. Both L03s are 9.3.
    Last edited by jiho; 6 Days Ago at 12:19 PM.

  5. #65
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    I'm assuming TH400 for BFYZ. It rings a bell that the L05 had that option. Of course no replies.
    Of course. A limited use calibration in a relatively uncommon vehicle is not likely to generate many replies on this forum. Maybe the folks on a Cadillac forum will have the transmission answer?
    https://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/forum.php

  6. #66
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    As Sherlock Holmes used to say, the game is afoot.

    So I called about the BCWZ, reaching a certain "U Pick U Save" in Anaheim (Orange County, other end of the state). The guy who answered took a message, said another guy would call back. Eventually that guy did and took the 16159280 ECM part number, said he would call back and never did. I called back and the first guy gave me a phone number in Long Beach (south Los Angeles) for a guy named Noe (the contact name Car-Part.com indicated in an acknowledgement e-mail I got after submitting the original inquiry). I called about 4:30 and got a scratchy answering machine with a woman's voice. I think I heard the name "Auto Module Suppliers," that they close at 4, and I could leave a message with a part number. I didn't, figuring I'd call during business hours.

    Just now, about a half hour later, Noe called me. Says he worked at "U Pick U Save" for about 9 years, left to start "Auto Module Suppliers" about a year ago, and that "U Pick U Save" is closing out this part of their business and dumping the inventory on him (1000s of parts, he says), which he is due to start receiving tomorrow as it happens. He has my number, and took my name. But told me I might have to call him, as he might forget things.

    He did make a point of not just the 16159280 ECM part number, but of asking for the "four letters" which I was happy to provide. This is encouraging, first time I've encountered this level of knowledge, lol.

    So we'll see. I don't know these people, the terms are unknown, and I'm not exactly chomping at the bit to give my credit card number. Assuming he finds the ECM and it has the chip.

    What have you gotten me into?

    NOTE: I guess the Car-Part.com listing would be over a year old, since Noe would have still been at "U Pick U Save" as the contact. Had an extension on the contact phone number.
    Last edited by jiho; 6 Days Ago at 05:37 PM.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post
    Of course. A limited use calibration in a relatively uncommon vehicle is not likely to generate many replies on this forum. Maybe the folks on a Cadillac forum will have the transmission answer?
    https://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/forum.php

    No, I meant replies to my Car-Part.com inquiries. But see the preceding.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiho View Post
    In your (earlier) words:



    So (now) it "isn't that bad"?

    What I'm stressing is the RULE that any motor I swap into my California-certified car must be a California-certified car motor.

    All this trivial disputation and hand-waving is getting repetitious.

    BTW, that page is VERY out of date. The sticker they show bears no resemblance to what Referees have been using for well over 15 years that I know about.
    It isn't that hard of a process is my point, it is just annoying setting up an appointment going, failing your first time for something stupid and then returning; however, now my jeep is 50 state legal for anywhere else I move. My only gripe is that I even had to deal with it in the first place because of some bureaucrats. The actual inspection process isn't hard, just is an unfortunate inconvenience.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiho View Post
    Anyway, the truck L05 has 9.3:1 compression, where the car has 9.8. You could use the truck long block, but it is what it is. Both L03s are 9.3.
    GAAK, this L05 is getting very murky. I can't get a straight answer on the truck version. Did it really have a flat tappet cam? The cars had roller. What exactly was the truck compression? And while the Caprice and Roadmaster list 9.8:1, the Fleetwood lists 9.68? The Fleetwood also lists different hp and torque at different rpms. One of the supposed advantages of the L05 was the surplus of truck motors to use as long blocks, with three different cars for bolt-ons. Now it's starting to feel like I'm sticking my foot in it ....
    Last edited by jiho; 6 Days Ago at 08:03 PM.

  10. #70
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    Lo5 truck engines from 88 - 95 were flat tappet cam, 88 - 93 had the bosses for the spiders used in roller cams, some 94 - 95 did not. Some of the bosses were drilled and tapped, most were not. Weird stuff huh? If you want to convert a truck engine from flat tappet to roller cam it'll cost you ~$500 more comparing new to new.

  11. #71
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    Thanks for the info. Not what I want to hear, but what I want to know ....

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiho View Post
    I'm assuming TH400 for BFYZ. It rings a bell that the L05 had that option.
    Then again, it can't be. Available info says the '93 Fleetwood ONLY had the 4L60 (700R4). So I have NO IDEA what BFYZ is about.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiho View Post
    And while the Caprice and Roadmaster list 9.8:1, the Fleetwood lists 9.68? The Fleetwood also lists different hp and torque at different rpms.
    This I still don't get. These cars all have the same L05 with the same mechanical components. The only difference is the air cleaner box. How can the compression be different, let alone the power curves? The Fleetwood claims higher numbers at lower rpms:

    Caprice/Roadmaster: 180 hp @ 4000 rpm, 300 lb-ft @ 2400 rpm
    Fleetwood: 185 hp @ 3800 rpm, 305 lb-ft @ 2000 rpm

    Normally I'd look for a different cam. Must be different exhaust?
    Last edited by jiho; 6 Days Ago at 12:28 AM.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiho View Post
    Then again, it can't be. Available info says the '93 Fleetwood ONLY had the 4L60 (700R4). So I have NO IDEA what BFYZ is about.
    BFYZ is about what many calibrations are about in the GM database. The transmission type is undocumented. It's hard to say why this happened. Possibly the inclusion of automatic trans information s an option seemed superfluous in a car line that only offered automatic transmissions. It is clearly not a manual transmission. It clearly is a "no listing / all" calibration.

    This I still don't get. These cars all have the same L05 with the same mechanical components. The only difference is the air cleaner box. How can the compression be different, let alone the power curves? The Fleetwood claims higher numbers at lower rpms:

    Caprice/Roadmaster: 180 hp @ 4000 rpm, 300 lb-ft @ 2400 rpm
    Fleetwood: 185 hp @ 3800 rpm, 305 lb-ft @ 2000 rpm

    Normally I'd look for a different cam. Must be different exhaust?
    Replacement GM Cam for Fleetwood and Caprice shows part no 10088155. Same cam as 305 TPI engines.
    Cam specs here:
    http://www.gmtips.com/3rd-degree/dox/tips/cams/cams.htm

    The 9C1 cars got a larger cam but I'd look at the exhaust for the small difference in Caddy and Caprice.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post
    BFYZ is about what many calibrations are about in the GM database. The transmission type is undocumented. It's hard to say why this happened. Possibly the inclusion of automatic trans information s an option seemed superfluous in a car line that only offered automatic transmissions. It is clearly not a manual transmission. It clearly is a "no listing / all" calibration.



    Replacement GM Cam for Fleetwood and Caprice shows part no 10088155. Same cam as 305 TPI engines.
    Cam specs here:
    http://www.gmtips.com/3rd-degree/dox/tips/cams/cams.htm

    The 9C1 cars got a larger cam but I'd look at the exhaust for the small difference in Caddy and Caprice.
    93 Caddy TBI had a weird 1 year only ECM with a Memcal and the one I have had my hands on had the ASR system from the Vettes and electric fans. The absence of the clutch fan may explain the rated power difference.

    The TH375 aka 3L80 vanished in trucks in 1990. I doubt they used them in Cadillacs. Perhaps the coach chassis had the 4L80E in them starting in 91 but I doubt that too. I know the LT1 Limos used the same 4L60E that was in the 9C1 Caprice with the large added coolers. Making me believe in all likelyhood the earlier cars used a 700r4 too.

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