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Thread: Need help tuning my calibration on a 0411 with road runner emulator using TunerCat.

  1. #1
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    Need help tuning my calibration on a 0411 with road runner emulator using TunerCat.

    Hello everyone,

    I`m having difficult time trying to tune my calibration file with TunerCat, i`m new to tuning calibrations myself. Their is nothing difficult, but the problem is, all forums with info & instruction i find are for other software, like HPtunner or EFILive. More for HPtunner, and the function tables and settings their are named differently, and i don`t semm to find them in TC.

    My setup is 1990 LT1 small block 5.7 engine, with vortec heads an manifold and TB of a 1998 5.7 Tahoe, KB pistons, comp cam 08-467-8 with 58* of overlap, AC DELCO 217-3029 89060440 spider injectors, with 0411 Road Runner Emulator, NO EGR, NO VATS, NO CAT`s, NO REAR O2`s. Nothing really special...

    The Engine starts only when i apply the accelerator pedal, by about 15-20%, runs reach, smells, does not have cold start and does not hold idle if i let go the pedal.

    Could some one please provide a link to some learning source with info & instructions on TunerCat Specificaly. LT1pcmtuning,com is good sourse, but mainly for ODB1 i guess and too much general info. I have found and lost a forum, where someone specifies what every table in TC does and stand for in a more easy to understand way then TC help on calibration, and some instructions on idle tuning, but i`ve lost it and can`t find it.

    I could have payed for the calibration to some tuning company or salomon from LT1pcmtuning.com, but want and need to learn my self, because in future want to try upgrading to many things, like marine intake for example.

    Or may be someone would be kind enough to gide me...

    Could you guys please have a look at my .cal file, and give yor opinion and sugestions where i have to start making changes, for now all i did, didn`t give me any result, like i wasnt doing anything at all... But i have played with VE tables, Spark tables, idle tables, and got no feedback from the calibration.

    Thank you in advance, if some aditional information needed, please tell me, i will provide.

  2. #2
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    I am assuming uou are running an automatic trans. You are going to need a 3,000 stall minimum for that cam. Cam is also really too big for stock Vortec heads as well as the compression ratio you will be at. Finally the stock intake manifold will choke that engine off from making power over about 5,200 rpm. I personally would back up and punt. I would not go over 220* intake duration with 210* being preferable. About 8-10* more exhaust duration than the intake. GM has a great little cheap roller cam made by Crane.
    GM 94666492

    Cranes equivalent number is https://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-104224/

    That being said I can give you some guidance on tuning what you have but I feel you will never be happy with that cam in your mostly stock 5.7 Vortec.

    That cam is going to want ALOT of air at idle. First I would open the throttle plate minimum air set screw about 3 turns. Then using a scanner with the key on and engine off back off until the TPS reads Zero. From there raise your warm idle speed to about 1,000 rpm. Start with about 1,600 rpm at the coldest value and smooth it down as the temp increases. Set your idle airflow in the warmed up portion of the Park/Neutral to about 15 gms/sec. Set your In-Gear to about 18 gms/sec. I would bump the coldest temp values about 10 gms/sec and smooth the table down to the warmed up value. I had a similar cam I tuned in a 5.3 and had to drill a hole in the throttle plate to get it to idle in gear. The IAC could not bypass enough air to maintain idle speed in gear with the much lower than stock idle vacuum. Set your idle timing table to 26 in the 0-1,200 rpm range from 20-70 kpa and taper down to about 20 at 100 kpa. Finally set your MAF high fail frequency to Zero and set the MAF high code to set a DTC on the first failure. That will disable the MAF and allow you to tune the VE tables. That cam with its abysmal dynamic compression ratio is going to want ALOT of timing in the lower RPM range. I would set any timing value less than 20 to 20. in the 90-105 KPA range, 20 @ 400-1,200, 22 @ 1600, 24 @ 2000, 26 @ 2,400, 28 @ 2,800, 30 @ 3,200-redline as a starting point then interpolate the values across from about 40 kpa for each RPM row. Should see higher numbers throughout.

    EDIT- I forgot you said 0411. Disregard the KPA, I had Black box in my mind. Will get back with you on a timing map in Excel.
    Last edited by Fast355; 01-22-2019 at 05:10 PM.

  3. #3
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    Hi
    I only program LT1’s but have used TC in the past.
    Basics...
    I presume you are starting with an existing similar specced tune?
    Have you altered the injector specs? Rated flow. Voltage offsets. Low pulse width adders.
    Cylinder size.
    Is that the 280 xfi cam?
    The startup ve tables id reduce by 50 to 70%
    Is there a startup injector base pulse width. I’d raise that by about 25%
    Raise the idle speed to 800-1000 just to get it to idle.
    Closed throttle timing 20-30 degrees.

    Mitch
    '95 Z28 M6 -Just the odd mod.
    '80 350 A3 C3 Corvette - recent addition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terminal_Crazy View Post
    Hi
    I only program LT1s but have used TC in the past.
    Basics...
    I presume you are starting with an existing similar specced tune?
    Have you altered the injector specs? Rated flow. Voltage offsets. Low pulse width adders.
    Cylinder size.
    Is that the 280 xfi cam?
    The startup ve tables id reduce by 50 to 70%
    Is there a startup injector base pulse width. Id raise that by about 25%
    Raise the idle speed to 800-1000 just to get it to idle.
    Closed throttle timing 20-30 degrees.

    Mitch
    I am making the assumption that he is starting with the 5.7 Express van 0411 file. If so many of the settings should already be correct for the base setup. Engine size, Injector size, Injector compensations, etc.

    I am attaching an Open Office file with some values of the key tables I was talking about as well as a VE table that should be a fair bit closer than the OEM GM Van table.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Hello fast355,

    Thank you for your feedback, well, i had a lot of different issues while building my trucks engine and trying to tune it, first i had blackbox and 4R700 trans, it used to idle, but couldn't hold the load and the TB was wide open for it to idle. Than i changed to 4L60E, but some solenoids didn't work, because the wiring i had was chopped everywhere, but at that time i got the engine to idle at 675rpm when hot, it used to choke the first two three first times i try to start it, and had no cold start, but as i hold the pedal and worm it a bit, then try to let go and engine wants to stall, but i don`t let it and rev it a few times, than it starts to hold the idle, and i managed to set it at as low as 650-675rpm with this cam.

    At that time i used as a start point a calibration that i got from NISANDRA on this forum, i have just remembered that, will try today to use his calibration, may be a bit better. Where i got the .cal file i used last few times i don`t remember, i think its the 5.7 Express van 0411 file, but then i don`t remember where i got it from, because LEXTECH only uploaded .cal for EFILive tune soft, which is different format. Anyway, my point is that i have had the engine idling at really low rpm quite stable with my 08-467-8 Comp Cam. But now, after changing the wiring and getting everything on with no faults except the alternator L & F circuit fault, but that i guess is because my alternator does not have control by 0411, i couldn`t manage to reach the same idling result.

    Here is a .cal i got from NISANDRA, i guess i`ll try using this .cal file as a start point and will start it all over again from scrap today.

    Thank you for your feed back and open office excel file provided.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Aksl; 01-23-2019 at 08:03 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terminal_Crazy View Post
    Hi
    I only program LT1’s but have used TC in the past.
    Basics...
    I presume you are starting with an existing similar specced tune?
    Have you altered the injector specs? Rated flow. Voltage offsets. Low pulse width adders.
    Cylinder size.
    Is that the 280 xfi cam?
    The startup ve tables id reduce by 50 to 70%
    Is there a startup injector base pulse width. I’d raise that by about 25%
    Raise the idle speed to 800-1000 just to get it to idle.
    Closed throttle timing 20-30 degrees.

    Mitch
    Hello Mitch,

    Thank you for feedback,

    Well, I am using a preset .cal file that i got from internet as a start point, as i have mentioned the last one that i have uploaded at the beginning of the thread, i truly don`t remember where i got from, i will be using the one i got from NISANDRA on this forum from today and will start from scrap all over again.

    So i have checked and set the cylinder size, i have not altered the injector specs yet, and i couldn`t find there specs on the net. Voltage offsets and low pulse width adders i haven`t touched either, and to be honest, don`t know which exactly tables in TC to check (what exactly tables are responsible for these indicators).

    Yes the cam is the one you have specified, it is the 280 xfi cam!

    I will try to find the startup injector base pulse width in the TC.

    May be i should make print screens of what lists of options (tables & settings) i have in this .cal when i open it in TC.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aksl View Post
    Hello fast355,

    Thank you for your feedback, well, i had a lot of different issues while building my trucks engine and trying to tune it, first i had blackbox and 4R700 trans, it used to idle, but couldn't hold the load and the TB was wide open for it to idle. Than i changed to 4L60E, but some solenoids didn't work, because the wiring i had was chopped everywhere, but at that time i got the engine to idle at 675rpm when hot, it used to choke the first two three first times i try to start it, and had no cold start, but as i hold the pedal and worm it a bit, then try to let go and engine wants to stall, but i don`t let it and rev it a few times, than it starts to hold the idle, and i managed to set it at as low as 650-675rpm with this cam.

    At that time i used as a start point a calibration that i got from NISANDRA on this forum, i have just remembered that, will try today to use his calibration, may be a bit better. Where i got the .cal file i used last few times i don`t remember, i think its the 5.7 Express van 0411 file, but then i don`t remember where i got it from, because LEXTECH only uploaded .cal for EFILive tune soft, which is different format. Anyway, my point is that i have had the engine idling at really low rpm quite stable with my 08-467-8 Comp Cam. But now, after changing the wiring and getting everything on with no faults except the alternator L & F circuit fault, but that i guess is because my alternator does not have control by 0411, i couldn`t manage to reach the same idling result.

    Here is a .cal i got from NISANDRA, i guess i`ll try using this .cal file as a start point and will start it all over again from scrap today.

    Thank you for your feed back and open office excel file provided.
    I am not saying that it will not idle lower. Its just easier to tune an engine that does not try to stall every time you come to a stop or turn the steering wheel a few degrees at idle. Once you get the VE table dialed in, turn the MAF on, disable the dynamic blend so that you are running on only the MAF and dial it in, then turn the blend back on, it should be running much better at which point you can play with lowering the idle speed and fine tweaking. When the engine is running at a stable RPM and you get it idling you can actually adjust the idle airflow tables from a cold start through warm engine in both Park/Neutral as well as In-Gear.

  8. #8
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    I see thank you Fast355, i get a bit confused with tables, i satrted updating the tables with the figures you send me in the big cam excel sheet, and as i have said, i`m a beet newbe to tuning, so i get confused with what exactly tables i have to update. I would be gratefull if you can guide me through a little.

    I have attached the print screens of what tables i have in my .cal file, and the questions are conserning the tables i have to update.

    In the excel there are:

    1. MAIN SPARK - is it Spark Table -> Mean Best Timing Spark Advance Vs. Load Vs. RPM in my .cal spark table? (because i don`t even have this table specified in calibration help of TC)

    2. IDLE SPARK - is it Spark Table -> Spark Advance Vs. Load Vs. RPM, Open Throt, Low Oct. ?

    3. VE TABLE - I gues it is the fuel tables -> Main Volumetric Efficiency Vs. RPM Vs. Map ? (In excel sheet it starts with 27 at 400rpm, in my tune .cal table it starts with 128.20 at 400RPM..., way much over 27, thats why confuses me..)

    4. CRANK VE - ok that is fuel tables -> Crank Volumetric Efficiency V. Map Vs. RPM preaty shure of it...

    5. IDLE OVERSPEED & IDLE UNDERSPEED - are clear, it is -> Idle controle tables -> Idle Overspeed/Underspeed Spark Advance Correction Vs. RPM Error.

    6. IDLE SPEED - is -> Idle controle tables -> Target Idle RPM Vs. Coolant temp.

    7. IDLE AIR VOLUME - is -> Idle controle tables -> Idle Air Flow (gm/sec) Vs. Coolant temp Vs. Gear.


    I will attach the tables print screens as well to make it 100% clear..

    Thank you, for you help and guidance Fast355.

    And i guess i will need some guidance here as well:
    "Once you get the VE table dialed in, turn the MAF on, disable the dynamic blend so that you are running on only the MAF and dial it in, then turn the blend back on, it should be running much better at which point you can play with lowering the idle speed and fine tweaking. When the engine is running at a stable RPM and you get it idling you can actually adjust the idle airflow tables from a cold start through warm engine in both Park/Neutral as well as In-Gear."

  9. #9
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    In terms of Mitch`s advises, same thing:

    - The startup ve tables id reduce by 50 to 70% - Yes ok, that is what Fast355`s excel table shows..

    - Is there a startup injector base pulse width. Id raise that by about 25% - Yes there is, but to many injector pulse tables, not sure wich one you mean..

    - Raise the idle speed to 800-1000 just to get it to idle. - Ok

    - Closed throttle timing 20-30 degrees. - Close throtle timing, not sure which exactly table it is..

    Sincerely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast355 View Post
    I am making the assumption that he is starting with the 5.7 Express van 0411 file. If so many of the settings should already be correct for the base setup. Engine size, Injector size, Injector compensations, etc.

    I am attaching an Open Office file with some values of the key tables I was talking about as well as a VE table that should be a fair bit closer than the OEM GM Van table.
    I have made all changes like in file, except MAIN SPARK & IDLE SPARK, not sure wich exactly table to ubdate for these..

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    Hi

    I can't help directly with the tables as i don't use TunerCat ( not used in 6-7 years).

    The VE table that starts with 128.2
    Can you change the view or viewable values of that table? such as percentage.
    each byte can hold a value of 0-255
    so to me it looks like that's a 50% value.

    Mitch
    '95 Z28 M6 -Just the odd mod.
    '80 350 A3 C3 Corvette - recent addition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terminal_Crazy View Post
    Hi

    I can't help directly with the tables as i don't use TunerCat ( not used in 6-7 years).

    The VE table that starts with 128.2
    Can you change the view or viewable values of that table? such as percentage.
    each byte can hold a value of 0-255
    so to me it looks like that's a 50% value.

    Mitch
    Hi Mitch,

    No ia can not change the values, Tuner Cat doesn`t provide that option, but their is Help on Calibration, that is specifying what are the values in each table, the units in this table are: gm/cyl/sec, here is a print screen..
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Ow, and the values in the BIG CAM EXCEL file provided by Fast355 are in %, and i just copied them, now have to convert to gm/cyl/sec and update the values. Thanks for noticing that Mitch!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aksl View Post
    I have made all changes like in file, except MAIN SPARK & IDLE SPARK, not sure wich exactly table to ubdate for these..
    Main Spark is Spark Advance vs Load vs RPM High Octane

    Idle Spark is Base Spark vs Load vs RPM Drive & P/N.

    I just noticed I transposed something when I copied it over. For the IDLE RPM, the values for Drive and Park Neutral are swapped. You want a slightly lower idle in gear than in drive that way when the transmission engages the engine idles slightly lower.

    I would also zero out the values in the AFR Spark Advance Correction vs AFR vs RPM table, the Idle Flare Startup Spark Advance vs RPM table, the Cat Lightoff Spark Correction vs ERT vs Load table, and finally the EGR Spark Advance Correction vs Load vs RPM table.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast355 View Post
    Main Spark is Spark Advance vs Load vs RPM High Octane

    Idle Spark is Base Spark vs Load vs RPM Drive & P/N.

    I just noticed I transposed something when I copied it over. For the IDLE RPM, the values for Drive and Park Neutral are swapped. You want a slightly lower idle in gear than in drive that way when the transmission engages the engine idles slightly lower.

    I would also zero out the values in the AFR Spark Advance Correction vs AFR vs RPM table, the Idle Flare Startup Spark Advance vs RPM table, the Cat Lightoff Spark Correction vs ERT vs Load table, and finally the EGR Spark Advance Correction vs Load vs RPM table.
    Ow, ok, thank you for corrections, i will swap the values in IDLE RPM table with AC on/of for P/N to In gear and vice versa, thank you!

    Trying to convert right now the % values to gm/cyl/sec for VE & Crank VE tables..

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