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Thread: 94 Z71 TBI on vortec build runs richer than a crooked politician!

  1. #61
    Fuel Injected! Jimmie's Avatar
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    Good deal, thank's for letting me know I'm on the rite track. I know where a few hills are and I'll give that a try after this correction.

  2. #62
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    Ok, does anybody ever get these TBI systems tuned out rite?! I've been working on this and then let the guy who originally sold me the custom chip work on it for a while now and after nearly dying this morning when it fell on it's face and died entering the highway leaving me as a prime T-bone candidate with trucks speeding towards me at 80+MPH and I'm in neutral spinning the engine over hoping for some not dead, she finally sputters back to life and get's out of the way without a moment to spare!! I'm about ready to carb this sucker!!!!!!!! I don't know if it's just mine or what. My avatar pic to your left is a tuned port conversion I did many years ago and I tuned it out in no time, it had great mileage with tons of power. I also did an old style 350 with LT1 intake modified to accept a dissy, welded bosses on each corner for 4 point cooling since it was a reverse flow intake and mounted a remote thermostat housing on the fenderwell. Even that tuned out great with an old 7730 and super aujp. now I have a plain jane TBI with a little cam and vortec heads and it is seemingly impossible to get tuned out to run even close to what it should be capable of or at least SAFE! I'm even contemplating getting a FITECH or similar system and letting my pcm control the 4l60e for me. I wish I could find some type of port injection for it but anything out there is priced like it's gold plated. I was thinking about another TPI intake but just the lower intake is $400. I am open to all suggestions folks, and I know there are several great minds on here who have way more experience than I do so lets here some ideas!???

  3. #63
    Fuel Injected! donf's Avatar
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    TBI is not that hard its a little harder than the later systems though. Mine runs 124 to 132 BLM in most cells depending on the weather changes, the baby roller cam helped, but it still took a few weekends to sort out the fuel table, the timing table is still in progress. I have seen it many times though, the same people cursing at tbi system are the same ones cursing at their new system.
    Last edited by donf; 02-26-2019 at 04:39 AM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmie View Post
    Ok, does anybody ever get these TBI systems tuned out rite?! I've been working on this and then let the guy who originally sold me the custom chip work on it for a while now and after nearly dying this morning when it fell on it's face and died entering the highway leaving me as a prime T-bone candidate with trucks speeding towards me at 80+MPH and I'm in neutral spinning the engine over hoping for some not dead, she finally sputters back to life and get's out of the way without a moment to spare!! I'm about ready to carb this sucker!!!!!!!! I don't know if it's just mine or what. My avatar pic to your left is a tuned port conversion I did many years ago and I tuned it out in no time, it had great mileage with tons of power. I also did an old style 350 with LT1 intake modified to accept a dissy, welded bosses on each corner for 4 point cooling since it was a reverse flow intake and mounted a remote thermostat housing on the fenderwell. Even that tuned out great with an old 7730 and super aujp. now I have a plain jane TBI with a little cam and vortec heads and it is seemingly impossible to get tuned out to run even close to what it should be capable of or at least SAFE! I'm even contemplating getting a FITECH or similar system and letting my pcm control the 4l60e for me. I wish I could find some type of port injection for it but anything out there is priced like it's gold plated. I was thinking about another TPI intake but just the lower intake is $400. I am open to all suggestions folks, and I know there are several great minds on here who have way more experience than I do so lets here some ideas!???
    Mine over the years have run as reliably as they did stock. Just ALOT more get up and go.

  5. #65
    Fuel Injected! Jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donf View Post
    TBI is not that hard its a little harder than the later systems though. Mine runs 124 to 132 BLM in most cells depending on the weather changes, the baby roller cam helped, but it still took a few weekends to sort out the fuel table, the timing table is still in progress. I have seen it many times though, the same people cursing at tbi system are the same ones cursing at their new system.
    donf before you edited your comment you said "the same people cursing at tbi chips are the same ones cursing at their new system.[/QUOTE]" is this referring to where I purchased my "custom tune" that has been ongoing for months now? And you also said "they are easier to tune, but not idiot proof" well, it's obvious I'm no TBI expert but I'm on here to learn, not be called an idiot. Anything helpful is greatly appreciated though.....

  6. #66
    Fuel Injected! donf's Avatar
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    Get off your horse! The reason I edited it was so it wouldn't get taken the wrong way. I never called you an idiot, but if you wish to act like one by harping on the people helping ... well?

  7. #67
    Fuel Injected! Jimmie's Avatar
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    donf, first off I appreciate you trying to help me previously in this thread. Second maybe I shouldn't have responded to your comment that you edited but I am a hot head and couldn't shake the fact that you made a smart a$$ reply to my post for no good reason when I was just asking for help and you knew it was smart a$$ which is why you edited it and again maybe I should have just left it alone. I haven't talked any trash about the guy who sold me a $300.00 custom tune because he is trying to help fix it and help figure out why it's still not performing rite, but you reacted like you know the guy personally and I haven't mentioned in here anywhere who it is. Either way I'm not here to argue with anyone and I'm sure no one else likes to read about it, so sorry to all admins and readers looking for good info.

    Hopefully all that drama is over folks now on to the problem, this thing has a bad sluggish throttle that gets much worse depending on the temp outside and I'm wondering if its just how TBI systems run? I know the tune isn't rite yet but I'm used to everything I have built having a snappy throttle response and loads of power which is why I ask about other options if these systems just wont do it. I really don't know because I don't personally know anybody who has built a performance TBI but I would love to hear from folks about theirs to help me make a decision on whether to keep chopping away at this tune or switch directions to something more performance oriented, the bottom end is rite I just need some good fueling on top.

    Any and all info is greatly appreciated

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmie View Post
    donf, first off I appreciate you trying to help me previously in this thread. Second maybe I shouldn't have responded to your comment that you edited but I am a hot head and couldn't shake the fact that you made a smart a$$ reply to my post for no good reason when I was just asking for help and you knew it was smart a$$ which is why you edited it and again maybe I should have just left it alone. I haven't talked any trash about the guy who sold me a $300.00 custom tune because he is trying to help fix it and help figure out why it's still not performing rite, but you reacted like you know the guy personally and I haven't mentioned in here anywhere who it is. Either way I'm not here to argue with anyone and I'm sure no one else likes to read about it, so sorry to all admins and readers looking for good info.

    Hopefully all that drama is over folks now on to the problem, this thing has a bad sluggish throttle that gets much worse depending on the temp outside and I'm wondering if its just how TBI systems run? I know the tune isn't rite yet but I'm used to everything I have built having a snappy throttle response and loads of power which is why I ask about other options if these systems just wont do it. I really don't know because I don't personally know anybody who has built a performance TBI but I would love to hear from folks about theirs to help me make a decision on whether to keep chopping away at this tune or switch directions to something more performance oriented, the bottom end is rite I just need some good fueling on top.

    Any and all info is greatly appreciated
    I have had single plane intakes, 2 tbi units on a tunnel ram, a tbi on a supercharger and dual tbi units on a blower. Not a single one has acted as you describe, even stone cold. Wet weather, hot weather, freezing weather, they all just ran. Much better drivability than any carb out there once the chip is dialed in.

  9. #69
    Fuel Injected! Jimmie's Avatar
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    Hey Fast355, how has your throttle response been on your TBI builds? I have a bit more power over stock but it just wont seem to do what the bottom end is built to do and it falls on its face from a slow roll to WOT, I mean you can hold it to the floor at times and slow down until you can't hear the engine until it dies but only at certain rpm. I even degreed my cam after it was in the truck and yep I should have done it to start with but it showed symptoms of retarded cam but all was to spec.

  10. #70
    Fuel Injected! Jimmie's Avatar
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    I think we both replied at the same time. Thanks that gives me a lot more hope for this build hearing what you have done with them! I just need to figure out where my problem is at I guess.

  11. #71
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    After I got the AE dialed in, good fuel map and good timing map it ran great at all rpm, engine load and weather.

    This was a video I made running a victor jr 2bb intake. Never was more than 1/2 throttle. If I had gone WOT it would have just smoked the rear tires from a stop.

    https://youtu.be/lkEbHMHlYZM

  12. #72
    Fuel Injected! Jimmie's Avatar
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    Nice running van! I bet you surprised a few folks with it. I'm running a 4bbl rpm airgap with the steel tci adaptor plate, the front plugs are lighter in color than the rear and it has me wondering about how the throttle blades angle the air to the back of the engine but it wouldn't explain the wot issue. the guy who made the bin I'm running said he put more accel enrich than he has used on big block tbi's and it still falls on it's face just not as bad. I have smoke tested it and found no leaks but maybe a leak under the intake? New intake and good gaskets but I'm looking for anything that I am overlooking at this point. It's at about 10mpg without the power to go with it. I have stock exhaust manifolds but new high flow exhaust system and cat, maybe time for headers?

  13. #73
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    Did you use the Fel-pro MS98000T intake manifold gaskets? They look to be a good intake gasket for Vortec heads.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitch View Post
    Did you use the Fel-pro MS98000T intake manifold gaskets? They look to be a good intake gasket for Vortec heads.
    I used the GM Performance Parts 0.120" thick paper gaskets this time around. I have had failures on both the stock style gaskets and those Felpro "Problem Solvers".

  15. #75
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    I used the Victor Reinz MS1616, they are the plastic with rubber surround and aluminum inserts to keep from over tightening. A leak under the intake would explain a lot, it's not idling high or surging like I am guessing it would do but I've never had it happen before either. What symptoms have ya'll had with leaks? I have smoked it, drowned it in carb cleaner, and listened with a stethoscope hose trying to find a leak and haven't found anything, but that wouldn't show one under the intake to the valley.

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