Last winters project - 85 IROC Z (From Intro)

[zaut]

I spent the winter building a 383 for my 85 IROC Z. I bought the car new when I graduated from college and had always intended to keep it stock. After getting my doors blown off by a Solstice GXP, I had to do something. So I built the 383 with a donor block from the local junk yard. I think I did well. Here is my parts list. (Did keep the TPI, That’s why I am here now)
trick flow 195 heads,
Edlebrock TPI intake base, SLP runners, 58 mm BBK throttle body, roller cam
with rockers yield (intake /exhaust lift 0.560” lift with 219/225 duration at
0.050”, lobe center 112), compression is 10.2/1, 28.2 # injectors, BBK
adjustable pressure regulator. All induction is polished. Plenum is
opened up to max and intake base was also ported, Edlebrock Shorty headers,
magnaflow cat and 3” cat back exhaust. Rear end is 3.42 posi
with a 700R4 trans.
That’s my baseline. I have been playing with the $F program for awhile now and am at the point of wanting to start scanning. I understand the 870 EMC with a 160 baud transmission rate has limitations with scanning. So I bought a 1227165 EMC and a memcal adapter and the $32 def file. They came in today. The ECM was to come with a PROM, but now I am told I was mislead. So my problem is where to get a mem-cal for my car. The 86 Camaro equipped like mine can use anyone one of five different part numbers according to my GM parts manual. (3236AUM, 8958AMU, 8969ANB,8980ANY or 8993AUM). Does anyone know where to get one? Also I will be looking for tuning advice. I have TunerCat software. There a several tables I don't fully understand. I'll ask those questions latter after I get a prom and can actually use the new ECM.

[EagleMark]

That must be so cool to have that car since new!

Well when you get that runnin it should be a raped ape compared to stock, nice motor!

But I'm a little lost, what is a $F? And a 870 EMC? I think the EMC you mean ECM... but the three letter BCC you mention AUM, AMU, ANY are they for a CCC carb car ECM? That just won't work with EFI.

So that brings us to a memcal for your 1227165. There seems to be a shortage of Memcals for old thirdgen cars. Give a PM to TunedPerformance as he makes them from other V6 cars and such and can probably get you going there.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/member.php?80-Tunedperformance

We'd surely help you get going and glad to have you here but don't forget about thirdgen.org as they are home to the Camaro and lots of EFI tech there. May be able to find a Memcal too.

[zaut]

Yes, it nice to say I bought the car new, and have all that documentation, sales brochures, etc. I worked for GM (Packard Electric at the time) so have all the original wiring harness prints for it as well. I do have it running but I think it should be more responsive. I have played with some of the basics like idle rpm and injector pulses versus load. I am at the point where I want to monitor the engine while it is running before I start playing with timing and acceleration enrichment. Everything I read says you don't get much data with the 1226870 ECM. That’s why I am going to change the ECM.

Sorry about my typos. You are correct, it is ECM. And the program ID byte is $1F, not $F. Anyhow, I have the GM parts and illustration catalog for the 82 to 91 Camaro. Since the ECM that came with the car is a 1226870 with only 160 baud com, I wanted to upgrade to the ECM for the 86 Camaro. Its part number in the catalog is 1228291. AutoZone and advance auto parts show the ECM I need is a 1227165 for a 86 Camaro. I have also seen the 1227165 p/n in many other post related to the 86 Camaro. In fact, I have a copy of the 86 Camaro service manual connector pin out for the 1227165 ECM. So I am guessing GM made a part number change. I am not sure which ECM p/n is the current p/n. The BCC codes I listed in my first post are what the catalog says I need for the 1228291 ECM. That ECM is listed as the ECM for a 5.0F engine in the catalog. F being the VIN code for the 5.0 TPI engines not a carbureted version. My guess I you have not seen those codes before. So I wonder what BBC code I should be looking for and if I should trust the parts catalog. I see Autozone sells remanufactured chips for $70 (more then I paid for the ECM!), but I need the code to order the correct chip. I did send a message to Tuned Performance. Thanks for that advice.

[EagleMark]

Actually just checking they did have 3 letter BCC codes for EFI, I was not aware of.

Try this, it's not totally finshed but does work with RPO codes so L98 for engine and MD8 for trans and it will spit out a list for you and you can pick from the 1227265 ECM. Whatever one you get is going to need a tune so no real bother.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/BCCFind/...shtml?BCC=ZZZZ

Look at Moates for chips and adapter to burn your own. http://www.moates.net/

[zaut]

I think I just figured this out a little. i found the BCC find app on here. The P/N I have been referring to as the ECM (1228291) is not the ECM p/n. It is the actual GM part number for the MEMCAL ia need. The BCC's I mentioned previouslly are correct for the GM partnumber and my application. This site is great. There is a lot to find.

[EagleMark]

That engine is still going to need a custom tune. So any memcal for the ECM would be fine.

[1project2many]

At least you're not afraid of a little wiring. :) Is Packard Electric even in business anymore? Or was it folded into Delphi or sold like Delco brand?

Before you get too excited about using the '165 I will say from experience that the MAF sensor on that system will limit the tuning potential of the engine. It's an old story, and there are many, many threads about it on thirdgen. Most guys finally switch to speed density and the 1227730. I tuned a fairly hot '86 Vette w/ 383, afr heads, Lingenfelter ram intake and cam on a '165 and we did ok but the MAF was maxed out by about 4000 rpm at WOT. After that we simply forced the amount of fuel we needed based on WBO2 readings using PE mode which is nothing more than educated guessing. We managed to dip into 12s that way but the year we switched to the 7730 we broke 11's and ended up around 11.5 for a final time. A lot of that was because we could really fine tune the spark and fuel to help the driver keep the rear wheels from breaking free. The other advantage was the car became more consistent. The guess method provided fueling that was close if the weather was similar to the day we tuned, but not so good if temp and humidity were dramatically off. With SD able to map the entire engine range we dialed things in much better. If you want to get started then go ahead and use the '165 but keep in mind you may end up using the 7730 down the road.

[zaut]

Not afraid at all, I know car wiring very well. I fact I worked in the vehicle test group for awhile so I was trained in the correct way to repair wiring. I used to install new products for durability testing on current year vehicles. I have worked in the industry for 28 years. Packard is now Delphi, they go by Delphi Packard Electric Systems. Thanks for the advice. I just won a EBAY auction for the correct memcal for my car with 165 ECM. If I change to the 7730, will that memcal still work? It’s not too late for me to return the ECM and go straight to the Speed density system. If I understand correctly, I replace the MAF with a MAP sensor. Does everything else stay the same? Does the 7730 use the same header connectors as the 870 and 165 ECM's? But before we go too far, isn't the long runners on the TPI system another bottle neck for air flow? I did everything I could to increase air flow, but I have heard I will die out in the 5000+ RPM range anyways. That’s why I chose the CAM I did. I kept the TPI because I want to make it look as stock as possible. I did go with the Edlebrock TPI base and the SLP runners. I opened them up as much I could and polished them. I still think I have flow limitations that you may have surpassed with the Lingenfelter intake. Please let me know if I am correct with my understanding of the TPI limitations.

[1project2many]

When I replied I didn't realize this was in the introductions forum. You should probably start a new thread in the GM EFI forum after this.

FWIW it sounds like you've had an interesting career. I learned wiring repairs from an old telephone lineman. "Make a good mechanical connection with the wire and it will survive by itself for years. Make a bad connection and nothing you do with it will last."

You've done a fair amount of reading and it sounds like you understand the basic problems with the TPI system. Larger displacement engines will have trouble at lower rpm. The best TPI I've seen is the FIRST TPI but it's not cheap by any stretch. Here's a picture of the FIRST runners next to stock TPI runners:
PDRM0377L.jpg

FIRST web site:
http://www.firstfuelinjection.com/

The 165 to 7730 swap isn't too bad but some wires need to be re-purposed. The MAF burnoff relays aren't used, the EGR circuit may be different, and the knock sensor circuitry is simplified because the knock filter is moved onto the memcal. And no, your 165 memcal won't work correctly in the 7730. The 165 has a different number of grounds and power feeds and the 5V reference and return paths for some of the engine sensors are split up differently. The 7730 shares two connectors with the 165 but has a third connector which you will need to obtain. Years ago I made a cheat sheet for this swap but I can't find it on this machine. I'll look around. Maybe it's on my laptop.

[EagleMark]

Moved thread!

[zaut]

You are correct about a good mechanical connection will last. The problem is knowing what a good mechanical connection really is. There is actually a lot of science behind a crimped connection. The width to height ratio of the crimp and the amount of cable core compaction are all critical to a long lasting crimp. Thermal expansion and contraction will cause a crimp to relax over time. Resistance will go up and on a high current circuit it can cause a fire. Unless you crimp to the validated crimp specifications of the terminal for the cable size you are using you don’t know if the crimp is going to last. In the field, the best thing to do is to solder every crimp. Nothing is better than that.
The picture looks a lot like the SLP runners I have. The SLP runners are siamese like the ones you show. I think the SLP runners may actually have a larger cross section then the ones pictured. Are those the ones GM was offering in their performance parts catalog? Or is FIRST TPI an aftermarket setup?
Well since the chip I just bought isn’t compatible, I will move forward with the 165 ECM. I really don’t plan on drag racing the car. Leaving a stop light quicker than the average Joe will make me happy. More than anything I want to get the tune correct. I think getting good real time scan data is my major concern at this time.

[EagleMark]

You are correct about a good mechanical connection will last. The problem is knowing what a good mechanical connection really is. There is actually a lot of science behind a crimped connection. The width to height ratio of the crimp and the amount of cable core compaction are all critical to a long lasting crimp. Thermal expansion and contraction will cause a crimp to relax over time. Resistance will go up and on a high current circuit it can cause a fire. Unless you crimp to the validated crimp specifications of the terminal for the cable size you are using you don’t know if the crimp is going to last. In the field, the best thing to do is to solder every crimp. Nothing is better than that.

I hate crimps! Not for any of the valid scientific data you are mentioning, just to me a crimp connection is a temp fix that is going to fail, not if, when! I'm not refering to any professional type crimp repair or installation tool, just the crap sold to fix wires on cars, yuk!

Not to hijack here but I would like to here what you have to say about wires connected in middle, soldered and wires tinned and soldered in a connector, both shrink wrapped when done.

Well since the chip I just bought isn’t compatible, I will move forward with the 165 ECM. I really don’t plan on drag racing the car. Leaving a stop light quicker than the average Joe will make me happy. More than anything I want to get the tune correct. I think getting good real time scan data is my major concern at this time.

Since you have not proceeded yet you may want to reconsider. Your converting to what they are moving up from.

Getting good data is not an issue. Just buy TunerPro.

[zaut]

Splices or joints on the middle of a wire are used throughout the vehicle. Since the early 90's the sonic welded splice is the desirable process. The plant uses less solder which is a hazardous material. That’s out of the question for a repair on the car. Before that we used, the clip and dip process. You would crimp a steel splice clip on the wires then dip the splice in a little flux then a solder pot. The splice clip is only to hold the wires together until soldered. In the contact physics realm, solder is the ideal electrical connection. It is considered to be a zero resistance connection. Clip and dip is still used in certain application like large cable sizes and some OEM’s just don’t like sonic splices. So again solder the splice and you will have a good, long lasting connection. Your basic 50/50 flux core solder is all we used. Lately, they have been using lead free solder in the solder pots, but that is only because of EPA issues. Outside the passenger compartment, splices are sealed with heat shrink tubing with hot melt glue inside. You will get good sealing because as the tube heats up and shrinks, it forces the hot melt into the voids between the cables. Water, especially salt water, is bad for energized circuits. In the passenger compartment, where it is dry, you can use what we called splice tape. It was basically duct tape. But electrical tape is fine. The splice tape gives better abrasion resistance and is harder to get solder spikes or loose strands to poke through than electrical tape.
Tin coated cable is used only on SIR circuits because of the critical nature of that system. Basically you get a better crimp then a bare copper core. But it is still not as good as a soldered crimp. In the high production world, you don’t want to solder crimps, so for critical circuits, they use tin plated cable. In that same arena, they would use gold plated terminals. The terminals are selectively gold plated in the connection interface. You will see that on the terminals plugging into the airbag squib. This is not necessary for any engine control application. Probably the only other exotic connection would be the cable in oxygen sensors. It’s typically stainless because of the temperature. Those connections are welded (laser or resistance) at the sensor and crimped at the pig tail. I would not recommend crimping to that cable. I think you can solder stainless, but I have never done it.

[zaut]

Mark,
As far as terminals soldered in a connector, if you have the correct terminal, you should solder the cable core to the terminal. Normal automotive crimps have two sets of crimp wings. On set is for crimping to the cable core. Solder that crimp. The other wings are the insulation crimp wings. Those give strain relief to the core crimp. You should not crimp the insulation crimp very tight. All you need is three point contact between the insulation and the wings. You can add heat shrink over the whole insulation crimp and core crimp if it will fit in the connector. That will give added stain relief. For sealed connection systems, like everything under hood, you want to make sure the seal is not distorted by the insulation crimp. Those crimp wings should only snugly wrap around the seal. If you are adding a non-OEM connector in a wet area that is not a sealed connector, I would definitely recommend the heat shrink if possible over the crimps. To enhance the connection more, pack the connector with grease to keep moisture out. I am sure you have seen that on older bulkhead connectors. It’s messy but works. We used what we called skin over grease. It was very cheap grease that would get a dry film on the outside over time. Lamp sockets used white lithium grease. Now everything is sealed with silicone rubber weather seals.

[gregs78cam]

It’s typically stainless because of the temperature. Those connections are welded (laser or resistance) at the sensor and crimped at the pig tail. I would not recommend crimping to that cable. I think you can solder stainless, but I have never done it.

I have never had much luck soldering stainless O2 wires. Luckily not all O2 wires are stainless. Posi-Locks work reasonably well also. http://www.posi-lock.com/posilock.html

I was wondering how long it was going to take them to come up with these. http://www.posi-lock.com/positite.html