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Thread: 1995 lt1 M6 tuning

  1. #16
    Electronic Ignition! Trevor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kur4o View Post
    What you need is the adapter from the link.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/FT232RL-3-3...8AAOSwrklVMjIp

    You can buy several and have spares. It is the best design from all usb to ttl and proved the most durable.
    Tie rx and tx lines and connect ground.

    All you have to do is tie ground and connect rx&tx? Heck why doesn’t everyone do that instead of $50-80 cables

  2. #17
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    It all started in this thread. After testing different layouts and chip configuration, this one proved best.

    http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...ight=converter

    Actually this board is intended for arduino applications. The price went down slowly over the years and the design improved.

  3. #18
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    The JY-MCU module with the resistor and diode that I mentioned was found inside a Red Devil River cable.

    But yes, you can find the module and a 10' USB extension cable for $5 and wire the module under the dash running the cable out for your PC.

  4. #19
    Electronic Ignition! Trevor's Avatar
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    The red devil river cable was the one I had planned on using prior to this thread. They seemed to have good reviews

  5. #20
    Fuel Injected! spfautsch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
    All you have to do is tie ground and connect rx&tx? Heck why doesn’t everyone do that instead of $50-80 cables
    That was my entire point on the suggesting the DIY cable. Mine is more or less permanently affixed to the car because I have five or six of those FTDI USB boards.

  6. #21
    Electronic Ignition! Trevor's Avatar
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    Well I downloaded tunerpro and eehack. Ordered the parts to build a cable, and found some bin files stock and otherwise to check out. Engines not back in my car yet so not much I can do until go time. On badz28 I found a tune for a setup like mine but it was an autocar, figured I could look through and check out what was done vs stock

  7. #22
    Fuel Injected! spfautsch's Avatar
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    I feel your pain - mine is sitting on the engine stand tormenting me while my heads are three states away. "Go time" cannot come soon enough.

    Steveo has a robo-tune function on his fbodytech.com site that can generate some useful compare bins as well. Just don't get too hung up on getting a "base tune". I think you'll find that your best base tune will be had using the tools in eehack to get your idle spark advance and individual cylinder trims as good as they can be working from your stock bin. Also, my advice as a fellow green-horn tuner is to not take anything you read anywhere as gospel.

    The beauty of a manual car is that you don't have to spend a bunch of time trying to tell the PCM what you want it to do with the transmission. Slushboxes are great for drag racing and getting groceries. Drivers like to drive.

  8. #23
    Electronic Ignition! Trevor's Avatar
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    Are you referring to trimalyzer? I downloaded it but my laptops antivirus shut it down. Something about malware or a virus. I’m sure steveo would not have anything like that but unless I disable my firewall I can’t open it

  9. #24
    Fuel Injected! spfautsch's Avatar
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    That's probably happening b/c trimalyzer is checking for updates. You should be able to create a rule to allow it through your firewall, but I don't do windows support in my free time. The word "antivirus" makes me both cringe and roll my eyes.

    Steveo's robo-tune stuff is on his website, here: http://fbodytech.com/bin-files-2/fre...uning-service/

  10. #25
    Fuel Injected! steveo's Avatar
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    some comments in no particular order...

    That's probably happening b/c trimalyzer is checking for updates.
    trimalyzer doesn't link to network libraries of any kind, and doesn't check for updates. i planned to add an update check but it's still 'in beta' and i'm lazy

    Are you referring to trimalyzer? I downloaded it but my laptops antivirus shut it down. Something about malware or a virus. I’m sure steveo would not have anything like that but unless I disable my firewall I can’t open it
    your antivirus sucks. anyway it's open source and my code is very simple, someone could audit the source code and make sure there's nothing malicious in it.. yet another benefit of making free software open source.

    Will trimalyzer work with maf system now or is it still speed density?
    it does maf analysis but is not well tested and you do have to input the changes into the maf table manually. perhaps you could help, by trying it out and letting me know how it works? i've never tested it. i wrote trimalyzer during a time when all my vehicles had carbeurators -- i've never actually used the thing except for one brief tuning session on a friend's car.

    On badz28 I found a tune for a setup like mine but it was an autocar, figured I could look through and check out what was done vs stock
    i've looked at all of those bins and they are mostly complete and total garbage, i don't know who wrote them, but they are either barely tuned or poorly tuned. i'd disregard them entirely and start from scratch.

    Steveo has a robo-tune function on his fbodytech.com site that can generate some useful compare bins as well. Just don't get too hung up on getting a "base tune".
    that thing is for people that can't even manage to install tunerpro or open an xdf and bin file; this guy probably wont find it much use

    Well I downloaded tunerpro and eehack. Ordered the parts to build a cable, and found some bin files stock and otherwise to check out.
    every stock bin file known to exist in the wild is on my site: http://fbodytech.com/bin-files-2/bin-files/

    All you have to do is tie ground and connect rx&tx? Heck why doesn’t everyone do that instead of $50-80 cables
    because by the time you built a proper connector with spades so you aren't just jamming bare wires into your ALDL port, and a nice little case so you don't just have a circuit board dangling near your gas pedal leg, you've wasted more than 50 bucks worth of time and parts.

    other than that, yeah, the little board works great, that's all i've used for years on all sorts of vehicles, LT1s and otherwise, i wrote eehack with it and tested the flash routine extensively with it. it's a good bet.

    EEhack and Tunercat are 2 completely different programs that do different things. Tunercat lets you adjust parameters and EEhack lets you scan and log the operation. I think you meant Tunercat vs Tunerpro, which both work similar. You need one of them to do any actual tuning.
    to be clear on the tools available and what/why/how much:

    eehack - log, flash, free, open source
    tunercat - tune, flash, 30 day demo then pay
    winflash - flash, 30 day demo then pay
    datamaster - log, obselete, pay
    scan9495 - log, free
    tunerpro - tune, free
    tunerpro RT - tune, flash, $$$ (but works if you don't pay. but you should pay)
    trimalyzer -

    I did confuse Tunercat with Winflash earlier. It's been that long since I used either. I would not recommend Tunercat for editing your bin as it's definition file is somewhat outdated and missing a lot of parameters that are available with one of the many EEX files floating around here. Winflash is also unnecessary.
    i have to play the devil's advocate for tunercat, here. tunercat has added quite a few parameters in the last few years such as o2 timing that robertisaar found. it has EVERY parameter necessary to make a successful tune. there is a lot of stuff in eex and the other variants that a new tuner need not concern himself with. tunercat is the bare essentials.

    also mine has a hacky, free, crazy flashing routine, and it's totally possible that my software bricks ECMs more often than tunercat/winflash. perhaps you get what you pay for.

    i know of 5 people that have bricked an ECM with eehack in a way that i find possible that it could have been caused by a bug in eehack. all other people that wrote to me complaining of bad flashes made statements like 'oh yeah my car battery was flat dead' or 'my laptop freezes out of nowhere', or 'i found teeth marks in my aldl cable'. i find this failure rate very reasonable considering eehack has been downloaded over 7,000 times since the flash routine was added.

    tunercat probably has a similar failure rate, but guess what, if you brick an ecm the tunercat author will fix it if you send it to him, for a minimal charge. if you brick your ecm with eehack, all i can say is 'too bad so sad, get a soldering gun or go to the wreckers for another one'

    i don't personally like tunercat just for the fact that finding parameters is just in a horribly cluttered menu instead of a properly sorted categorized list like EEX has, that is the number one reason i made EEX in the first place, but it's still viable software and well worth what he charges.

    .. your choice

    Would any wideband kit work for these tuners as far as logging? I was looking at the aem kit with bosch 4.9 sensor, it has a 5v serial output on it.
    i used a FAST dual channel wideband while writing eehack, but also played with an AEM before i wrote it. i liked the AEM. no wideband is perfect with this thing, but with a few tweaks of eehack's 'trim' setting you can get it accurate within the operating range of 11:1 to 15:1 kind of thing, which is all you really need. the analog input linearity of this ecm is actually pretty awful. a wideband that lets you configure the analog output range is ideal, since you could output a fairly narrow range and gain more linearity (that's why the AEM was nice)

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  12. #27
    Electronic Ignition! Trevor's Avatar
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    As has been the case through out this you have saved the day Steveo. I’m glad you have a donation button on your page as you certainly deserve it. I dislike the norton antivirus and I’m sure there is nothing bad in any of your files, but it was late at night and I didn’t have time to try much. I’m not new to the idea of tuning, just new to efi tuning. I could mail order but I wouldn’t be satisfied and I’m addicted to learning new skills. It’s not awfully different then jetting and distributor timing and setting advance. Eehack is very user friendly, and I doubt I will have any issues. But I have a spare impala ss Ecm and z28 if things do go bad. I’m also willing to try the maf but I may need a little guidance when it comes that time.

  13. #28
    Fuel Injected! steveo's Avatar
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    It’s not awfully different then jetting and distributor timing and setting advance.
    it's easier

    you have more adjustment and you don't have to take a carb or distributor apart to make actual changes.

    you can use eehack to tune idle by feel just like clocking a distributor and tweaking a pilot jet

    I’m also willing to try the maf but I may need a little guidance when it comes that time.
    i doubt it'll need much actual tuning on the maf end of things. typically a cam swapped LT1 just needs some low airflow adjustment since the pulsation from the cam at low rpm throws off calibration.

    don't be afraid to let closed loop take care of some portion of the fuel adjustments needed, a few percent of fuel variance isn't noticeable at all.

    just so you know what a typical lt1 tune looks like with that size of cam and a maf,

    you will probably end up adding some o2 delay time just because it seems like it makes sense,

    subtracting 'bout ~10% of fuel below ~4khz, bout ~5% to 8khz,

    drop anywhere from 5-10% of power enrichment fuel,

    jack up idle timing advance upwards of 35 degrees, increase idle speed speed slightly, maybe reduce the idle speed timing corrections to get less flutter,

    add a bit of wide open throttle timing but push the curve back a bit so it comes in slightly later,

    maybe a bit more timing advance in cruise range, or maybe a bit less depending on whether it wants to surge or not,

    might run into some false knock and have to kill knock detection in a region or two...

    something along those lines.

    then it'll run just great, and you can O.C.D the hell out of timing and fuel trying to get maximum smoothness, fuel economy, performance, etc.

  14. #29
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    One thing I would look at changing that doesnt get mentioned much is the BLM MAP & RPM boundaries. From the factory they are set kind of weird. It really seems to help with part -throttle drive-ability as well as BLM numbers.

    Also since you have a m6 look at desensitizing or deactivating all together the "stall saver". steveo has covered this subject in-depth on his fbodytech website.

    I made these two small changes on an otherwise stock Z28 LT1 M6 and I could definitely tell a difference

  15. #30
    Fuel Injected! spfautsch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveo View Post
    i used a FAST dual channel wideband while writing eehack, but also played with an AEM before i wrote it. i liked the AEM. <edited for brevity> a wideband that lets you configure the analog output range is ideal, since you could output a fairly narrow range and gain more linearity (that's why the AEM was nice)
    Steveo: any chance you recall what p/n you're referring to here? I added a wire to D27 for this (yes, I have and use my a/c even with a ~475hp cam) and I'm getting ready to weld in an o2 bung this weekend. I'd like to do my research now so I know how much I'm going to need to save for the AEM.

    Trevor: curious how it's going. Have you caught your breath yet? I recall where I was about a year ago when I first started trying to get <everything> dialed in. Thanks to kur4o and steveo we all have a few more tools at our disposal. In hindsight I wish I'd been more patient and methodical. A lot of time was wasted trying to tackle several problems at once. I think / hope kur4o's individual cylinder trim hack will make idle tuning for a choppy cam a lot easier.

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