Need a new engine...questions...

[PJG1173]

you can get a complete set of lifters, dog bones, and hold down spider from summit racing. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NAL-12371042/ also I would use a retrofit cam and a trust button insted of a step nose cam. It seems like the cam retainers/thrush plate bolts on differnt from year to year. the plate in my 97 donar motor wouldn't bolt up to my 91 block.

[Rally Smith]

What kind of tbi adapter plate do I need? Is it a front mount or rear mount for that manifold?

Thanks,

[EagleMark]

Lost track, what manifold did you decide on?

[Rally Smith]

Lost track, what manifold did you decide on?

The Top End Kit 89A comes with this manifold, http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-2716/

Also, I'm trying to figure out what Roller Rockers to go with... Do I need self-aligning, shims?

Thanks

[EagleMark]

Center!
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TRD-2210/

Although I like holly aluminum ones better then the plate steel.

[Rally Smith]

O.k. guys, I just got off of the phone with our local engine "builder". I use this term loosely. He is saying that he doesn't think that this cam http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...2209&submit=go, will work with the tbi, computer and map sensor. Also, he has made the comment that Edelbrock is mostly crap. What do you guys think?
I sure would appreciate your input.

[EagleMark]

He is absolutely wrong! The cam is even designated 1987 and newer which is only TBI.

As far as being crap, that is also not true, there are better brands and makers that are specific to cams like Isky instead of making many parts but that is just wrong to make that statement. You can ruin any cam by having to much valve spring or not properly lubing or breaking in, but your getting all the right parts to go along with cam, just add cam assembly lube, correct breakin oil and make sure motor is going to fire up and run at 1500-2000 RPM or whatever they recomend for 20 minutes or whatever they recomend. Pay attention to detail when firing motor up, prime oil pump and rotate motor slowly one full turn, full fuel, prime system, check for fuel leaks, check spark, fire up... If you have an oil leak keep pouring in oil, if you have a water leak keep adding water etc...

For icing on the cake I have tuned that cam in a stock TBI motor with headers and it was simple.

[Rally Smith]

If I die from stressing out about this don't be surprised. I'll make sure my wife posts on here for me so you guys know I passed, slowly and painfully!
For the money, is it worth it in your guys opinion? I'm going to install an external fuel pressure regulator and stainless hoses and proper fittings. That's going to run me about $315.00. The Edelbrock top end kit #2089 (A) http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...ek_chevy.shtml is $1938.00 and that doesn't account for everything else I'm going to need done. Manifold adapter, Dist. gear, roller rockers, roller lifter spider, cam retainer, pistons and on top of that I still have to get my engine to the machine shop to be rebuilt.

I guess tonight I will try and see if I can find something close to those kit specs in separate parts and different manufacturers to try and save some money. The engine shop guy said that he could get me better heads, that cam with my long block rebuild for $3K and I would still need to get a manifold. I don't know what to do.

My main goal was to get a nice reliable engine with decent performance out of it. This truck is a daily driver when I'm not using my Camaro in the nicer weather. But the truck is a mountain/town/do everything truck. It will most likely be handed down to my daughter in a few years when she starts driving.

I'm probably already WAYYYYY over doing it with the top end kit. Guys, please help reign me in back to sanity's side! I can't sleep because I can't stop thinking of what I should do and how to go about doing it.

Thanks again for all the help and advice.

Rick

[Rally Smith]

Any of you guys see this?
http://www.phoenixengine.com/Chevy-16.html

[dyeager535]

I think the heads are really the stumbling block. There are enough people out there that know which cams work well for what application. Heads are difficult because they had a lot more aspects IMO. You've got valve size, ports, chamber volume, chamber design, etc.

For me the first decision would be heads. Which ones do you want to run? (Just personal preference here but...) I would use the cheapest you can find with fast burn chambers. If complete Vortecs are the cheapest, see how much the AFR's, Worlds, etc. cost that are in the same flow range. *If* you can find new heads that work with your manifold (so the "older" bolt patterns, yours is two vertical center bolts, right?), that will save you from replacing the intake, or dealing with adapters for the TBI. Personally for a truck, I think the intake side flows enough with the stock manifold. Especially with a SBC TBI.

Once you get that picked out, pick your cam. Make sure your chosen heads valve springs are up to the task. Stay away from the roller if your motor isn't already set up for it. The gains just aren't worth it (IMO) if you are just building a low-end (power) motor. It's a truck, it should be a low end motor. :) Now, if you can find a new take out mild roller cam and all the parts from someone, go for it. I put a retrofit cam in my truck, and used a thrust button, that's it. Been in there 10+ years so far.

Put long tube headers on it. SBC's have traditionally suffered on the exhaust side, but Vortecs don't suffer on the intake side, so more efficient exhaust is going to help a large amount.

I'm not convinced you'll need much more than that.

For a truck motor I'm concerned with efficiency and low end power. Vortec heads, modern cam, and good exhaust should wrap that build up.

If these guys think you need more fuel pressure, ok, but if you aren't revving the heck out of that thing, fuel should be more than sufficient as is I think. I'm running stock fuel pump on mine, doesn't seem to ever run lean under hard acceleration (different base, vortec heads, non-stock cam, headers), and my Dad's TBI 454 with Edelbrock intake, fairly mild cam, and headers doesn't seem to be running out of fuel.

Doing mine again, I wouldn't have spent nearly as much money on the roller retrofit cam, I would have purchased stainless headers, and I would have found aftermarket heads with the earlier bolt pattern so I could have re-used the stock base. But choices were a bit more limited when I did it than they are now.

Building an engine anymore is just like building a computer. At some point after getting a general understanding of what different types of a particular component can do, and seeing if any others have comments on what you are considering, you just have to pull the trigger based on what you think works for you, and live with your choices.

[dyeager535]

Any of you guys see this?
http://www.phoenixengine.com/Chevy-16.html

What the heck is a first generation and second generation Vortec head for a SBC? I know the 4.3's were "vortec" long before, and LT1's had similar chambers, but it sounds like they are trying to pass off swirl ports as Vortec, so either they are dishonest or don't have a clue what they are talking about. Neither of which would make me consider them.

And the chrome parts don't help.

[Rally Smith]

And the chrome parts don't help.

I hear that!

[EagleMark]

First don't stress out and die on us! Take your time and enjoy it.

Why spend $315 on a regulater for TBI that no one has needed? Under $100 buys a sweet one for the TBI unit. Modified Regulater is free...

What motor are we talking about your rebuilding? What is the purpose of the vehicle? Daily driver or toy or both? My guess is daily driver is your toy and your going overboard here...

Are you going to assemble the machined parts or having it assembled as well?

The link looked like cool motors at good prices but I know nothing of their reputation.

There is a differance in an Engine Builder and a machinist. Your guy sounds like a machinist with no engine building skills. This is fine if he is a good machinist because you are the engine builder here, he is just doing the machine work. My machinist is fantastic, been using him for 12 years, everything is perfect, but he does not pretend to be an engine builder. He does practice and perfect his machining skills and has old to new equiptment in his shop. He is calm, never in a rush, never stressed, has plenty of time to talk to you but DO NOT interupt him while he is machining!!! It may take him a full day or more to hone the final bore size on an 8 cylinder block to perfect correct size because he lets the cylinder cool after each hone and before each measurement and does other machining inbetween! Now that is a quality skilled machinest only interested in putting out quality and perfect product.

[Rally Smith]

I think my problem is solved! I'm going to check it out tonight after work.
http://montana.craigslist.org/pts/2915403454.html

[dyeager535]

Warranty?

Complete is good, I wouldn't shell out more than $500 for a non-warranty engine. Sorry, I don't trust anyone on Craigslist, been lied to too many times. For that price, I'd seriously consider talking with your local GM dealer and seeing what they can install for you. Friend had a dealership install a crate motor in her K5, when she overfilled it with oil and destroyed it, they replaced it free of charge. I *think* the warranty with their install was something like 3/36K.

The GMPP website lists some outrageous prices, but I think dealers will sell for are less. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NAL-12530283/ Here's one. Buying a complete engine opens up a whole new can of worms. I believe the ZZ4 is a good motor, but no idea on its suitability for injection.