Don't use the outside of a harmonic balancer for timing control. The outer ring will actually shift at different speeds than the crank itself, hence absorbing harmonics.
This can cause timing control issues, and possible drivability issues.
Make a separate wheel that is sandwiched between balancer and pulley, or attached to the outside of the pulley.
The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.
Shooter,
You beat me to the punch, the notches on the outer ring that Jeeps mentions are the way that HESCO does it, and that is who MOPAR sources that part from, BUT you are again right that the outer ring can and does move especially at higher rpm. However you can't do what you did in the pics(I did the same thing on a Rover 4.0 V8 into TR7 project) as the pulley IS the outer ring of the harmonic balancer, and it is WAY close to the timing cover, so you couldn't put a trigger wheel on the inside between the balancer hub & the timing cover. Maybe you could spin the balancer in a lathe and true up the front surface of the area where a pullers bolts go in and use those to bolt a trigger wheel to the front/outside of the balancer, I've had that thought, what I haven't worked out is how to locate the center for concentricity.
Look at the second picture, different car, outside of the crank pulley/balancer. ;)
Here, have another angle:
The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.
I'm curious, what is that you have in the pics, it looks to be a straight 6 based on the single visible head, and the number of notches on the trigger wheel, obviously turbo charged, but I don't recognize it...
I now notice that it's a different car based on the trigger pickup location, I initially assumed that the second was a pic of the same engine, just without the pulley on it yet.
That is some pretty sweet machineing on the crank trigger pickup mount, Yours? To get that arch in the mount you'd need at least a rotary table to go with the mill, I've been looking for a deal on one, but haven't seen it yet when I had the funds to spring for it.
Last edited by doc65; 03-23-2012 at 04:05 AM.
The first picture is the trigger wheel on a 60 degree V6 hybrid that I built YEARS ago.
The second and third pictures are of my L28 in my 240Z. Picture here is pre DIS, I need to get some new pictures. LOL
The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.
Well there you go, Turbo Charged inline 6, nice, did you bring the air cleaner/air intake for the turbo out to a cooler spot by chance, down under the intake alongside the exhaust might be a bit warm, cooler denser air should be some "free" ponies...
Hey it just hit me you said 240, the 240 was never injected was it, seems like it had mikunis, or aftermarket Webers, did you build the intake manifold/plenum?
Yeah, I have had the filter forward and near the bottom of the rad, then I made an extension that moved the filter out in front of the rad, then changed rads, due to my original one developing a small leak. The new rad is taller than the original, and interfered with the intake tube, so it's now back near the bottom of the rad. I only noticed a small difference in intake temps, my IC works VERY well.
The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.
Looks like you are taking the pressureized intake from the turbo under the sump, around the pass. side, across the front thru the intercooler then into the throttlebody, seems like a LOT of pipe, but I guess if it works. No issues with turbo lag? I was always lead to believe that the longer the pipe the more to presurize the more the inherent lag...?!? Then again that was years ago(oops, probably decades actually, dang time flies)
The length of tube has little effect on lag. It takes something like .02 second to pressurize 10 feet of 3" tube, to 15 PSIG. The turbo itself, along with the exhaust has much more effect on turbo lag than the intake piping.
The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.
Well that may have just been an old wives tale then, as I mentioned it was from back in the dark(the early 80's) that I was remembering reading that, it was probably also a draw-thru carb fed system...
All good info as I like the concept of dreaming up a turbo setup for my SX4 Eagle on top of a bored & stroked Jeep 4.0/4.6...
Hahaha, a stroker is my main reason for wanting a tuneable ecm too. I have a later model NVH block with the main cap brace and a 258 crank and rods setting in storage, as well as a 99+ intake. I'm simply getting as many miles out of my stock 4.0 before I build the stroker. 273K and still wont die. Burns no oil and still runs great! And a turbo has always been a dream of mine too....lol
But like mentioned, hesco and mopar use a balancer thats been notched, and it seems to work just fine for them?
If you were to do DIS, would there be any problems when making a trigger wheel because of the diffrent firing orders the engines have? The 4.0's firing order is 1-5-3-6-2-4, and from what I found on google, the 3.1's firing order is 1-2-3-4-5-6.
79 Jeep Cherokee, AMC 401, T-18 manual trans, hydroboost, 16197427 MPFI system---the toy
93 Jeep YJ Wrangler, 4.0L, 5 speed, 8.8 rear, homebrew hub conversion and big brakes, hydroboost, 2.5in OME lift, 31x10.50's---the daily driver
99 Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee limited, 4.0L, auto, 2wd, leather and power everything, 99% stock---the long distance highway ride.
No problem at all, you make up for that quite simply by changeing which coil feeds which spark plug, the dis coil pack is actually 2, 3 or 4 double sided ignition coils(4, 6, or 8 cyls), so in that scenario(without verifying the firing order on the 3.1) initially coil one would feed 1-4, coil two feed 2-5, & coil three fed 3-6, and now they would be C1=1-6, C2=5-2, C3=3-4. I researched doing DIS on a MegaSquirt system, it is triggered by the crank trigger wheel , and you use the Ford ICM which controls spark, advance is then controlled by a SAW wave from the MegaSquirt unit, at least that's one way to do it with that ECU...
Last edited by doc65; 03-24-2012 at 02:18 PM.
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