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Thread: Swap: 5.7 TBI -> Vortec heads EFI -> 0411 pcm with roadrunner from moates.net-HELP!!!

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  1. #1
    Fuel Injected!
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    Swap: 5.7 TBI -> Vortec heads EFI -> 0411 pcm with roadrunner from moates.net-HELP!!!

    Hello everyone,

    Well, i have a 1990 k1500 5.7 Silverado stepside 2-door 4wd.

    I have rebuild the engine, installed KB 0.25 forged pistons, comp cam 08-467-8, 1998 tahoe cylinder heads with manifold and all upper parts, AC DELCO 217-3029 89060440 spider injector kit.

    And runned in to alot of problems, programming the blackbox pcm for my setup, basically becouse i left the 4R700 gearbox, had to run a manual gearbox tune, that does not regulate the idle when in D position. Anyway, changing the tune is a pain in the ....

    At different forums, as well here, i was adviced to have a look at moaets.net roadrunner and 0411 swap, becouse with it, i would be able to change my tune in real time.

    I have bought 0411 from moates.net, bought an 4L65E used transmission, and was getting ready to install all that and make the final swap, just had the last bit, is buying a software to flash in and tune the 0411 PCM, since it comes without tune. So i chose the EFI Live software, that costs 250$ per single vin licence. And contacted moates.net, to make sure i cose the correct user friendly software and will be able to start my swap. So yes, EFI Live was the right choice, but i was recomended to get the EFI Live v2 cable, that costs 900$.

    So my questions are:

    1. Is someone here using roadrunner with 0411 PCM with EFI Live software?
    2. Are you as well using EFI Live v2 cable, and what for?
    3. Can i flash tune to roadrunner via usb cable comming out of the 0411 PCM i recieved from moates.net with roadrunner preinstalled and usb cable out of pcm?
    4. Can in realtime make changes to the tune via that cable?
    5. At moates.net, i was adviced to get EFILive FlashScan V2 cable to integrate the datalogging and emulation, that makes me confused, does that mean i can not load a tune without this flash tool and cannot use real time emulation?, than what is the usb cable for, that is sticking out of the 0411 PCM and is connected to roadrunner, that sits in pcm insead of the original chip.

    I'm confused, please, could someone explain!
    I mean, i will be very disapointed if it's all that way, and extra 900$ to spend, i mean if i have to, i will, since i am already involved myself into all that, but it is really not clear for me...

    Thank you in advance!

  2. #2
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    Ok, since no one is answearing, the main question, what do i need the usb cable for, thats coming out of my 0411 PCM with Roadrunner in it, i did some web search, and found only one article about moates.net and its roadrunner product, explaining it more or less precise. Here it is: http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/eng...es-roadrunner/

    And as i understood the info from it, it is all this way.:
    If you have an odb ll programmer, like EFI Live, with it you can flash and change tunes whith your vehicle non working, and than start your car and check the result. If you get roadrunner installed instead of your chip, you will be able to change the tune while car is running, and see the result straight away. But you still need the programmer.

  3. #3
    Fuel Injected! Lextech's Avatar
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    Hi Aksl.
    Not very many people have the 0411/Roadrunner setup. Your questions may be answered better by posting them on the EFILive forum. There is a subsection devoted to the Roadrunner. Sorry I can't be any more help than that.

    Jeff
    98 GMC RCSB, 5.0, 4L80e, Moser M60, 4.10 gear, Homemade twin turbo w/Junkyard T3 turbos, 24x CNP, 12200411 PCM.

  4. #4
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    Hi Jeff,

    Thank you for your advice, i sure will direct my question there, i runned in to EFILive forum, but just didn't have it in mind, and sure did not know, they have some subsection directed to 0411/Roadrunner setup.

    Thanks alot!

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    Ow, and by the way, thank you very much for sending me the file, with wiring set up for the swap of blackbox to 0411 PCM. I realy appreciate it!!

    Thank you very much! :) ��

  6. #6
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    I use my Roadrunner PCM with TunerCat, not EFI Live, but the answer is the still the same.

    The Roadrunner PCM no longer has flash memory - the Roadrunner emulator module replaces it internal to the PCM.
    The USB cable exiting the 411 PCM is used to program the Roadrunner emulator PCB - no additional programming
    hardware is required. When you buy the realtime option for either EFILive or TunerCat, it gives you the ability
    to write directly to the Roadrunner PCM through the USB port, both to do a full program, as well as for making
    changes in realtime.

    At some point, you may want to remove the Roadrunner PCM from this project vehicle and use it in another
    project. When that happens, you will then need a means to flash a standard 411 PCM with the file you will
    have developed using the Roadrunner. This is where the EFI Live programming cable comes in - it will allow
    you to flash program a stock 12200411 PCM.

    -Scott
    Last edited by ScottP; 10-02-2017 at 09:57 AM.

  7. #7
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    Hello Scott,

    Thank you very much for commenting, and saving me a fortune on the v2 flash scan. I am building this vehicle for my personal use, and I will not be using roadrunner for commercial usage, just for my vehicle and my self. So thank you very much for making it clear for me. I will be using EFI Live software, becouse it seems to be more friendly for user. I will still have to learn it, becouse i never used it, but as i know TunerCat iss much more complex to use, is that true by your opinion, regarding thet you are using TunerCat, and you are used to it?

    Well and plus to all, EFI Live license are cheapper than same license for TunerCat...

  8. #8
    Fuel Injected!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lextech View Post
    Hi Aksl.
    Not very many people have the 0411/Roadrunner setup. Your questions may be answered better by posting them on the EFILive forum. There is a subsection devoted to the Roadrunner. Sorry I can't be any more help than that.

    Jeff

    Hello Jeff,

    Finally i got the TunerCat RT software instead of EFILive, because in order to buy the EFILive license, you are obliged to have the EFILive V2 cable and tuner, otherwise EFILive would not issue the license. So i went with the TunerCat. I`m now looking for the base tune to start of, for my set up. I wonder if you could help me with that. As well i wonder, if there is a list of settings somewhere in the web, that i have to consider, and pay attention to when changinr the tune for my setup???

    Thank you!
    Last edited by Aksl; 10-11-2017 at 10:19 AM.

  9. #9
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    whats your setup?

  10. #10
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    Hello Nisanda, I have rebuild the engine, installed KB 0.25 forged pistons, comp cam 08-467-8, 1998 tahoe cylinder heads with manifold and all upper parts, AC DELCO 217-3029 89060440 spider injector kit. And i will install 4L60E gearbox. And its a 4wd with manual transfer case.

    Ow, and i have no EGR, and a traight out muffler.
    Last edited by Aksl; 10-12-2017 at 04:23 AM.

  11. #11
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    0411 swap wiring sticker labels for print out.

    Hello Jeff, and everyone,

    I`m slowly getting ready for my 0411 swap, and the thing is, Iím going to change the pin contacts for new ones (solder new pins on each wire).

    So for that purpose, I have made some sticker marks, that I can print out on the "address sticker label A4 paper" cut in lines, and stick around each wire. I thought itís a good idea.

    So wanted to share it, may be for someone else who will be making 0411 swap, it might be useful.

    I used an avery online soft, and their address paper: www.avery.com

    Here is avery format file, in case you want to change anything, you can do it online, they have a soft on their website. And a ready to print PDF file, in order to print correctly, in print settings, you have to unmark fit to paper size, and i as well printed in 98% scale.

    I as well attach a few pictures of what came out as a result. I find it useful, you just cut it with stationery knife in lines, just not from start to end of "address sticker label A4 paper", but from first sticker to the end of last sticker, to keep the integrity of the A4 paper, it will be easier to un attach each wire sticker label.
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  12. #12
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    2018!

    Marry Cristmas and a Happy 2018 New Year everyone!IMG-20180101-WA0005.jpg

  13. #13
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    0411 swap done!

    Hello to all Fuel Injected Gearheads,

    Thank you all for taking your time, to get acquainted with my project, explaining things to me, advising and helping me!!!

    A special thanks to:

    Lextech, thank you for providing the wiring file for the swap of black box to 0411 PCM, that made the swap very easy! (I saw all your vids at youtube, all your swaps and upgrades of your truck, very nice, i realy enjoyed watching, and reading your posts!)

    Scott & Hog, thank you guys for sharing your knowledge, information about tunercat, PCM, how it all works, and where it will all lead me to, deppending on what i choose, it made my choice very easy, and helped me to understand alot, gave me alot of useful information!

    NISANDA, thank you very much for sharing the "2001 Truck 5.7 L31 4l60e 4x2.cal" file, I have used it as a firmware for my swap, and after performing the swap, my truck started imidiately with it, with no problem, so it worked for me for all 100%, thank you!




    Now let me update on my project:

    Just a few days ago, i have made the swap of my blackBox PCM to 0411, with Excel file from Lextech, i understood that i shouldn't have been getting ready to make this swap for saw long, i sould have just whent for it straight away, becouse it was super easy, i have achieved the swap just in about three hours.

    With my Dell D620, where i have installed the TunerCat RT and uploaded to the RoadRunner the "2001 Truck 5.7 L31 4l60e 4x2.cal" that NISANDA have shared. The Truck started immediately.

    At first it couldn't idle, it would start, rise rpm, then lower the rpm and shut. The second time, start rise rpm, then lower it, and i tapped the pedal, not to let it shut, and it would rise the rpm again and stay ideling at high rpm, I would say that at about 1500-2000rpm. Now every time i start the truck, i have it ideling at high rpm from the start (it doesen`t lower it any more, and doesnt shut), it just starts, gets to high rpm and stays ideling at the high rpm speed, after it warms up, it doesn`t lower the rpm, but keeps on ideling at high rpm. This is the situation now, that i have to sort out, and as well, have to learn how and what in the firmware file to program with TunerCat RT via RoadRuner guts, it order to tune it all correctly.

    As well, straight after the swap, i wanted to re isolate the wiring harness, and found out that some wires in the harness were chopped, the list of chopped wires on the picture attached from excel file print screen. Those are wires that are chopped from PCM pin out side, there are a few wires on another picture, that are chopped and coming out from harness, but I doubt they linked to PCM, becouse i checked the pinout chart while making the swap, and had all the wires present at the sockets.
    But the list in excel file, of wires coming from the pcm and being chopped, are the once i worry about, some of them can affect the PCM and engine functionality, like the Vehicle Speed Output to Brake control module, and the two wires of VSS for example.

    My main brainstorming now, is about scaning, loging tool that i should get, the question is, should i get the Tech2, MDI, or HPtuner for these perpose? I would go with HPtuner and an ODBII cable, but will it have all the functionality as the Tech2 & MDI, will HPtuner be able to make a crank relearn? and falt reading/deleting, scanning and so on..?

    As well, is their any howto to using TunerCat, well, not exactly using the TunerCat, i mean a howto to making changes to the firmware, I`m afraid to mess with the tables for now, but other changes thet i tryed to make in TunerCat RT to the firmware, like the IAC counts that i dropped from 310 -> 160, and noticed no result, at least it did nothing to the high rpm the engine idles at. And without actualy fully understanding what i`m playing with, i fill unconfident and uncomfertable making changes, due to worrying that i can brake something.

    Anyway, thank you all for help once again, i will keep on stragling with my project, and if you guys have advice for me, i would realy appresiate it, since the information shared by you guys, and your advices, helped me alot before!

    Thanks to all, take care!!!
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