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Thread: Oil temp measuring

  1. #31
    Fuel Injected! JeepsAndGuns's Avatar
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    I dont know what the ohm readings are, but the temp sending unit for the factory gauge on my 79 cherokee is a very small (like 1/4in dia) sender. Its a one wire sender though. Also the sending unit for the gauge on my 93 wrangler is the same size, but dont know the ohm reading on it either.

    Neat idea about replacing the drain plug with a temp sender and using the trans temp input. Can you change the values to what temp would trigger a check engine light? Only problem I see with that, is you wont know what triggered the check engine light untill you scan it. I think I would prefer a gauge myself.
    79 Jeep Cherokee, AMC 401, T-18 manual trans, hydroboost, 16197427 MPFI system---the toy

    93 Jeep YJ Wrangler, 4.0L, 5 speed, 8.8 rear, homebrew hub conversion and big brakes, hydroboost, 2.5in OME lift, 31x10.50's---the daily driver

    99 Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee limited, 4.0L, auto, 2wd, leather and power everything, 99% stock---the long distance highway ride.

  2. #32
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    Looks good Mark , just what I was thinking.

    That with a sealing washer and it should be good to go .

    Now where would we input it into say a '7427 PCM ?

    TOM
    Last edited by Nasty-Z; 03-14-2012 at 03:26 PM.
    1994 3500 Dually , 502 (509) , 264HR , Edelbrock MPFI , PFI '7427
    1992 S-10 434 SBC/Tremec - '7427
    1986 Monte Carlo SS
    1984 S-10 , SAS, 496/700R4/205 , D44/14BFF -'7427
    1980 Z-28 496/700R4
    1979 Corvette 496/700R4
    1977 Olds 98 Regency 403/700R4

  3. #33
    Fuel Injected! PJG1173's Avatar
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    good question. On my 8625 I'm already using b16 for the wideband, e3 & e7 for fan control, and I have a 4l60e.
    87 4Runner, 15" spring lift, 3" body, chevy vortec 355, 5.29 gears, 38.5x15.5x15" Boggers, 280hr, 16168625 running $0D
    93 S10, 36x12.5x15 TSL's, custom turbo headers, 266HR cam, p&p vortec heads, $0D Marine MPFI with 8psi boost.
    05 Silverado, 2' lift, 4" exhaust, Bully Dog programmer,

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by EagleMark View Post
    Now if the kids IH has the same oil drain plug as a chevy
    It does , 1/2"-20

    Quote Originally Posted by dyeager535 View Post
    Tom, you don't happen to know where, if anywhere, the echlin catalog is available online do you? What I liked about it was you could simply look at all the different sensors, and just pick one that had the right features for whatever you wanted to do. I remember looking for coolant fan switches. The catalog specified the on/off temps, so I could pick one that worked when I wanted it to, without having to wade through the painful process of picking a vehicle and drilling down. Kind of like the Dorman catalog section on wheel studs. No application listed, just the pertinent specs for you to make a decision.

    They may not even print something like that anymore.
    Let me see if I still have an extra , if so ill get your info and send it to 'ya

    TOM
    Last edited by Nasty-Z; 03-14-2012 at 03:58 PM.
    1994 3500 Dually , 502 (509) , 264HR , Edelbrock MPFI , PFI '7427
    1992 S-10 434 SBC/Tremec - '7427
    1986 Monte Carlo SS
    1984 S-10 , SAS, 496/700R4/205 , D44/14BFF -'7427
    1980 Z-28 496/700R4
    1979 Corvette 496/700R4
    1977 Olds 98 Regency 403/700R4

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nasty-Z View Post
    Looks good Mark , just what I was thinking.

    That with a sealing washer and it should be good to go .

    Now where would we input it into say a '7427 PCM ?

    TOM
    When you had mentioned masaging it the light bulb went off in my head and I knew what you were thinking. So I used the bench grinder and slowly twisted it to get it narrowed down and when the threads were gone was thinking... hmmm... this has to seal, can't just RTV seal it in, it has to be like a drain pug! So I stopped grinding, next time I think I would use the drill in vise, or a lathe if my buddy ever get's his new one wired in shop!!!
    But anyway spinning in drill the brass is easy to work, with a good file. Got it nice and round and the nut end smooth and flat for a drain plug sealing washer. Spinning stright in a drill at high speed has it very smotth and true! Then put the die in vice and threaded it into die with box wrench, once I got first thread or 2 going in straight it was piece of cake.
    Quote Originally Posted by PJG1173 View Post
    good question. On my 8625 I'm already using b16 for the wideband, e3 & e7 for fan control, and I have a 4l60e.
    Greg had mentioned pin B5 for tranny temp but your already using it? Since mine has a manual that's where I plan to go. Found some other extra pins on 16197427 wiring diagrams that someone obviously figured out how to use E3 and E7 for fans! So still has A11, A13, B1, B4, B7, B14, F4, F5, C1, C2... so would need to figure out what they do and do a hac in XDF and ADX like the fan relay project and POOF! One more cool thing to add to $OD type stuff.

    93V8S10 has so much time into these he probably knows already what would work and what would not? We're going to have to find him a job where he can spend more time on internet!

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
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  6. #36
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    http://www.exatorq.com/ludis_obd1/schematics.html

    you might find some extra 7747 A/D pins(uses same board as 8746?) there. no 7427 though.

    Ludis was quite a pioneer.
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


  7. #37
    Vintage Methane Ejector
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    [QUOTE=EagleMark;6967] So still has A11, A13, B1, B4, B7, B14, F4, F5, C1, C2... [QUOTE]
    A11 = unknown

    A13 = HIGH A/C PRESSURE RPM COMPENSATION
    AC High Pressure Switch
    Must be grounded for normal idle, open for higher idle. AC doesn't need to be on. No known bins with this active.

    B1 = DIS Ignition System
    1 X Signal for ASDF (Alternate Synchronous Double Fire)

    B4 = Sensor Ground
    MAP, IAT, Transmission
    MAP (A), IAT (B), and Transmission Ground (M)

    B6 = May be a 5V reference output

    B7 = Knock Signal (THIS MAY BE WRONG! Anyone have a 95 P30 wiring diagram?)
    ESC Module
    Possibly for using old style under hood mounted spark module. Wire like 95 P30 Van.

    B11 = unknown
    B14 = unknown
    F4 & F5 = unknown
    C1 & C2 = don’t exist

    Without knowing if we have another temp input, you would have to use the trans temp pin and modify the bin to keep the trans in normal mode. To use, you would have to drive the vehicle to warm it up, then switch wiring and bins for dataloging the oil temp. Really need another pin for this...

  8. #38
    Fuel Injected! PJG1173's Avatar
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    would this be something that could be datalogged via the extra inputs on the moates autoprom?
    87 4Runner, 15" spring lift, 3" body, chevy vortec 355, 5.29 gears, 38.5x15.5x15" Boggers, 280hr, 16168625 running $0D
    93 S10, 36x12.5x15 TSL's, custom turbo headers, 266HR cam, p&p vortec heads, $0D Marine MPFI with 8psi boost.
    05 Silverado, 2' lift, 4" exhaust, Bully Dog programmer,

  9. #39
    Fuel Injected! gregs78cam's Avatar
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    Well I have a spare '7427 or two, so I disassembled it to try to figure out where these pins go, but.....is this a 3 layer board? That makes tracing it really hard.
    1978 Camaro Type LT, 383, Dual TBI, '7427, 4L80E
    1981 Camaro Z-28 Clone, T-Tops, 350/TH350
    1981 Camaro Berlinetta, V-6, 3spd
    1974 Chevy/GMC Truck, '90 TBI 350, '7427, TH350, NP203, 6" lift, 35s

  10. #40
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    my 16149396 is a 4 layer board, so probably at least 3 layers for you.
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJG1173 View Post
    would this be something that could be datalogged via the extra inputs on the moates autoprom?
    Yes!

    There's some new wiring diagrams in $OE and $85 that may help?

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
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  12. #42
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    the autoprom being able to natively datalog a temp sensor is dependant on whether or not it has any bias resistors on the A/D channel.

    since a temp sensor is basically a temperature controlled rheostat, the amount of resistance they produce to allow a certain voltage to remain in the A/C circuit, which is how the A/D system measures them.

    simple explanation: feed 5V through a 4K resistor to a temp sensor, measure the voltage using a voltmeter between the 4K resistor and the 5V power source, you'll see 5 volts. now measure between the 4K resistor and the sensor, you'll see a different voltage, dependant on the amount of resistance from the sensor. high resistance = higher voltage. lower resistance = lower voltage.

    now if the autoprom doesn't have any native pull up resistors, bit more difficult, since that essentially guarantee that there are pull-down resistors installed.
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


  13. #43
    RIP EagleMark's Avatar
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    I also have a printed 16168625 and I beleive 16197427 that both say knock is B15.

    Where I saw C1 and 2 I don't know but your right not on these diagrams...

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertISaar View Post
    the autoprom being able to natively datalog a temp sensor is dependant on whether or not it has any bias resistors on the A/D channel.

    since a temp sensor is basically a temperature controlled rheostat, the amount of resistance they produce to allow a certain voltage to remain in the A/C circuit, which is how the A/D system measures them.

    simple explanation: feed 5V through a 4K resistor to a temp sensor, measure the voltage using a voltmeter between the 4K resistor and the 5V power source, you'll see 5 volts. now measure between the 4K resistor and the sensor, you'll see a different voltage, dependant on the amount of resistance from the sensor. high resistance = higher voltage. lower resistance = lower voltage.

    now if the autoprom doesn't have any native pull up resistors, bit more difficult, since that essentially guarantee that there are pull-down resistors installed.
    I wish I took the electronics course in high school but that was before EFI so I thought a waste of time... that said you can feed 5 volts from wide band O2 sensor in and use it, so would that answer the question?

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  15. #45
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    well, there are essentially 2 types of sensors the A/D system can read:

    1. temp type (usually 2 wires(AKA rheostat)): they get 5V fed through a small value resistor(pull-up) on one side, the other connected to a ground. the different resistances it can produce determines the A/D result that the A/D converter comes up with when it reads the channel. common resistor values are 1K, 4K and 348 ohm. i can't remember which ones are optimal for which range of sensor resistance, but lets ignore that for now.

    2. every other type (usually 3 wires(AKA potentiometer)): they get fed 5V from one terminal, connected to ground through the second, then the third is connected to the ECM's A/D circuit. the 5V doesn't need to have a resistor on it, since it doesn't use a varying resistance alone to make a signal. anyways, the sensor is essentially a voltage divider. let's think about a TPS unit for a second. hold the throttle completely closed and you'll have close to 0 volts going to the A/D circuit, this is because most of the voltage is going through the ground circuit due to lower resistance being there. now open the throttle to 50% and you'll see ~2.5 volts. this is due to having roughly equal resistance on both the ground circuit and the A/D circuit. now open the throttle to 100%. now you'll see close to 5 volts on the A/D circuit since it's now the path of least resistance.

    now, generally an A/D channel will have a pull up resistor attached or a pull down resistor attached, based on what the circuit is needed for. pull up for the temp sensors, pull down for the non-temp sensors. i'm not 100% certain if the pull down resistor is necessary, but if i had to guess, it would be for signal stability.

    but, if you attempt to add a pull-up resistor to a circuit that already has a pull-down resistor, it will automatically start draining current that you applied to it, essentially making the circuit a lot less usable than it could be, since now you have to attempt to account for that as well.

    i converted 3 pull-up style A/D circuits to pull-down on my 9396 by simply moving the "pull" resistors from a 5V connection to ground. easier said than done, since soldering SMT stuff isn't something everyone can do, but it's certainly possible.
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


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