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Thread: carb to TBI converions, Marine application

  1. #1
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    carb to TBI converions, Marine application

    hello all,
    So I have thrown in the towel on the carb for my boat and decided to go EFI with a TBI system.

    I spent several hours at the junk yard over the weekend looking for parts. I was able to find a PCM its a 16168625 BDJZ (for $20)
    still looking for a Dizzy & TBI hat.

    I used this thread and got the bin file that matched my ecu with the "Advanced $E6 TP5 v250.xdf" and opened it in tuner pro.
    http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...Information-E6

    i see a lot of $E6 or $EE here, can someone explain what that means or a link to something i can read?

    Does anyone know if the dodge TBI has will work? I can find those all day long at the junk yard, all the chevys have been picked clean. found several bodies on a 4.3L but they were all missing the injector setups

    in my application I will need to turn off the Automatic transmission (Manual transmission check box) turn off EGR, turn off purge and any emission related items as they do not exist in a boat. any correction for AC.

    for starting out I think I would like to set it to run open loop as i'm still working on the o2 sensor part. the exhaust is water cooled so i have to get a bung through the water jacket.

    Another challenge will be how the ECU adjust for temperature. The boat has a 160F T-Stat and will struggle to get to that temp

    these bins/ecus have a lot more to them than the old OBD1 BMWs played with back in college. any help/guidance would be appreciated

  2. #2
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    Howdy.

    The strange codes preceded by a dollar sign such as $E6 and $EE are identifiers. They're called the mask ID or simply the mask. When working with tuning tools one must match the .bin with the editor, datalogger, and the ecm/pcm.

    The TBI ecm will operate two low impedance injectors. I don't happen to know what the impedance is for the Dodge / Holley TBI injector but if you find it we can answer the compatibility question.

    The ecm will operate at 160 degrees. You can adjust engine operating parameters to get the most from the engine at 160 degrees. Some folks using automotive TBI in a marine application have even figured out how to install an O2 sensor.

    What size and HP engine are you working with?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post
    Howdy.

    The strange codes preceded by a dollar sign such as $E6 and $EE are identifiers. They're called the mask ID or simply the mask. When working with tuning tools one must match the .bin with the editor, datalogger, and the ecm/pcm.

    The TBI ecm will operate two low impedance injectors. I don't happen to know what the impedance is for the Dodge / Holley TBI injector but if you find it we can answer the compatibility question.

    The ecm will operate at 160 degrees. You can adjust engine operating parameters to get the most from the engine at 160 degrees. Some folks using automotive TBI in a marine application have even figured out how to install an O2 sensor.

    What size and HP engine are you working with?
    this will be a stock Chevy 350. I'm was trying to pull everything from a TBI chevy 350 so it will fire up and have the base maps to start with.

    for an O2 adapter i was going to do this
    http://howellefi.com/general-motors/...or-marine-use/

    or see if I have the room to drill and tap in the gap between the head and manifold. I like the above solution better as it gets an average on the reading vs 1 cylinder. not sure how much heat the o2 can take with it being right at the head/manifold transition.
    333853d1193931165-marine-fuel-injection-marineo2.jpg

    how can I tell if I have a $E6 or a $EE?

    I know you have to match .bin & .xdfs from the link I 1st posted it looks like they all work together. I have not opened the .zip files where it looks like someone is adding features (fan control)

    a new distributor form rockauto is only $60 and a coil is ~$15. the TBI hat though is $380 so i'm still trying to source that.

    i found the connectors to make my own wiring harness.
    http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...lZCOa3cZvqE%3d
    http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...Kcasx2ZZHzQ%3d
    http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...bkGFrG1l89I%3d
    http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...XPzOh97SvHc%3d
    http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...%2f4ZAe21VE%3d

    I will probably make a harness that goes from those to a CPC connector (mill spec, twist lock with gaskets) put all the electronics in a water tight box and find a spot to mount that.

  4. #4
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    Clipboard01.jpg
    this is what the ECU i found looks like.

    this is the bin file i'm looking at right now, the BDJZ matches.
    BDJZ 93 C-K Truck 5.7TBI 4l60e with 3.73 or 3.42 gears.BIN


    looks liek the Dodge TBI injectors as 10-12 ohm where the chevy TBI is 1-2 ohm. so not gonna work is my guess.... unless I can use the body then just get 2 new stock injectors? i'm going to have to make an adapter plate for my motor anyways (spread bore to TBI)

    i called the junk yard and the chevy truck with all the parts i need will be put in the lot tomorrow (was unprocessed when i went in Saturday) so I will try to get the TBI hat and distributor and coil after work tomorrow.
    Last edited by keaton; 07-17-2017 at 05:58 PM.

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    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    I see some challenges using a 16168625 PCM for a Marine Carburetor to a Marine TBI conversion. Usually the 1227747 ECM is the Marine TBI computer of choice. The 1227747 has a park switch input, which eliminates the need for a Vehicle Speed Sensor. Setting the 1227747 park switch to Ground (battery -) tells the 1227747 the vehicle is in park. The 1227747 will operate an engine when the 1227747 thinks the engine is in park.

    The 16168625 does not a simple park switch input. It might be possible to configure the transmission gear position inputs of the 16168625 to indicate park. (That's something I have not tried to do) The 16168625 uses Vehicle Speed input to select near idle or off idle fuel and spark tables. It might be possible to configure the vehicle speed parameters along with the TPS% parameters to "lock" the 16168625 into using the Off Idle fuel and spark tables only?

    I'm sure a Marine engine would run with a 16168625 without a Vehicle Speed input, I'm just not sure how well the engine would run? Perhaps there is a way to have a GPS supply the 16168625 with a vehicle speed input?

    dave w

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    how can I tell if I have a $E6 or a $EE?
    You do not have $EE. That is from the 8051 ECM used with LT1 engines. The ecm is completely different.

    BDJZ is $E6. Go to google and type BJDZ site:gearhead-efi.com and you'll get good results.

    The 12 Ohm injectors could be used but there are a number of values that will need to be changed including the injector corrections and fuel flow rate.

    If the calibration you're using can be set for non-electronic transmisison then you may be able to use a simple park input.

    I think the wise choice is to get as much as possible from the junk yard truck.

  7. #7
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    is it possible to do a MAF conversion on this ECU?

    i will have to add an ignition shift interrupt to this, hopefully the PCM wont get to cranky about it. the shift interrupt kills the ignition (+12 to coil) for a brief second to kill the load and allow the boat to get into or out of gear

    Quote Originally Posted by dave w View Post
    I see some challenges using a 16168625 PCM for a Marine Carburetor to a Marine TBI conversion. Usually the 1227747 ECM is the Marine TBI computer of choice. The 1227747 has a park switch input, which eliminates the need for a Vehicle Speed Sensor. Setting the 1227747 park switch to Ground (battery -) tells the 1227747 the vehicle is in park. The 1227747 will operate an engine when the 1227747 thinks the engine is in park.

    The 16168625 does not a simple park switch input. It might be possible to configure the transmission gear position inputs of the 16168625 to indicate park. (That's something I have not tried to do) The 16168625 uses Vehicle Speed input to select near idle or off idle fuel and spark tables. It might be possible to configure the vehicle speed parameters along with the TPS% parameters to "lock" the 16168625 into using the Off Idle fuel and spark tables only?

    I'm sure a Marine engine would run with a 16168625 without a Vehicle Speed input, I'm just not sure how well the engine would run? Perhaps there is a way to have a GPS supply the 16168625 with a vehicle speed input?

    dave w
    Thanks for hoping in this thread.
    I did see that there is a switch to tell this PCM that it is a manual transmission. in that case shouldn't it ignore all the transmission controls?
    I have been looking at a GPS that does have a USART output, depending on the what the speed sensor output looks like I could program up a microcontroller to spit out the output to the PCM as needed.

    or see if someone wants to trade my 8625 for their 7747

    would the ECU from a vortec (96+) gain me anything? I found like 6 of them at the junk yard

    Quote Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post
    You do not have $EE. That is from the 8051 ECM used with LT1 engines. The ecm is completely different.

    BDJZ is $E6. Go to google and type BJDZ site:gearhead-efi.com and you'll get good results.

    The 12 Ohm injectors could be used but there are a number of values that will need to be changed including the injector corrections and fuel flow rate.

    If the calibration you're using can be set for non-electronic transmisison then you may be able to use a simple park input.

    I think the wise choice is to get as much as possible from the junk yard truck.
    I have been doing lots of searching and I know know I have a $E6. thank you for confirming it

    the truck did not make it to the lot so i will call tomorrow to see if it's ready

  8. #8
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    I'm look on here and I don't see the park switch
    http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...4&d=1322083598

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    I'm not sure what exactly happens when the manual transmission option is selected. I've converted a few 1227747's to the '8625; I selected manual transmission because they were using either a TH400 or a 700R4 with the factory VSS. I then disabled all the 4L60E / 4L80E transmission codes.

    The '8625 needs a VSS input of 2000 (2K) pulses per mile. Here is a link to some VSS options: http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Spe...eedometer.html Other options include using the speedometer driven VSS from behind the dash of an early 1227747 vehicle (which is a 2K VSS). Maybe connect an electric motor or variable speed electric motor to an aftermarket VSS? The basic idea I have is to provide the '8625 with a VSS speed, so it will switch between Near Idle and Off Idle. Typically the '8625 will switch from near idle to off idle at 6 MPH with 2.1% or greater TPS. The '8625 could be well worth the VSS hassle to use in a Marine application? Imagine having near idle fuel and spark tables for "Wake Free" zones and docking maneuvers along with off idle fuel and spark tables for getting on and staying on the "Plane"!

    If your plans are for open loop only, go with the 1227747, I'll gladly swap you two '7747's for the one '8625.

    dave w

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    Quote Originally Posted by dave w View Post
    I see some challenges using a 16168625 PCM for a Marine Carburetor to a Marine TBI conversion. Usually the 1227747 ECM is the Marine TBI computer of choice. The 1227747 has a park switch input, which eliminates the need for a Vehicle Speed Sensor. Setting the 1227747 park switch to Ground (battery -) tells the 1227747 the vehicle is in park. The 1227747 will operate an engine when the 1227747 thinks the engine is in park.

    The 16168625 does not a simple park switch input. It might be possible to configure the transmission gear position inputs of the 16168625 to indicate park. (That's something I have not tried to do) The 16168625 uses Vehicle Speed input to select near idle or off idle fuel and spark tables. It might be possible to configure the vehicle speed parameters along with the TPS% parameters to "lock" the 16168625 into using the Off Idle fuel and spark tables only?

    I'm sure a Marine engine would run with a 16168625 without a Vehicle Speed input, I'm just not sure how well the engine would run? Perhaps there is a way to have a GPS supply the 16168625 with a vehicle speed input?

    dave w
    I used the 7427 with a simple park/neutral switch, it is simply a matter of enabling the 700r4 logic. Auto trans/TCC only switches. Input signal on one wire of the 3 (forget which) and it works great.

    If it is a Mercruiser several companies make an adaper that sandwiches between the marine manifold and riser and holds an O2 sensor.

    I did a TPI 7730 on a TPI marine conversion and simply wired the kill switch into the coil output between the module and coil. Worked beautifully! used a newer marine thermostat housing off a Vortec L31 marine engine thay had the same bolt pattern angle.

    7427 works in Open Loop only very well too!

    I never use different Idle/Off Idle tables. Would be easy to set the switch over to Zero MPH and disable the Idle parameters completely.
    Last edited by Fast355; 07-18-2017 at 10:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dave w View Post
    I'm not sure what exactly happens when the manual transmission option is selected. I've converted a few 1227747's to the '8625; I selected manual transmission because they were using either a TH400 or a 700R4 with the factory VSS. I then disabled all the 4L60E / 4L80E transmission codes.

    The '8625 needs a VSS input of 2000 (2K) pulses per mile. Here is a link to some VSS options: http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Spe...eedometer.html Other options include using the speedometer driven VSS from behind the dash of an early 1227747 vehicle (which is a 2K VSS). Maybe connect an electric motor or variable speed electric motor to an aftermarket VSS? The basic idea I have is to provide the '8625 with a VSS speed, so it will switch between Near Idle and Off Idle. Typically the '8625 will switch from near idle to off idle at 6 MPH with 2.1% or greater TPS. The '8625 could be well worth the VSS hassle to use in a Marine application? Imagine having near idle fuel and spark tables for "Wake Free" zones and docking maneuvers along with off idle fuel and spark tables for getting on and staying on the "Plane"!

    If your plans are for open loop only, go with the 1227747, I'll gladly swap you two '7747's for the one '8625.

    dave w
    I would like to do closed loop at some point but for starting off (till i get an O2 sensor in) open would work.

    I'm hoping to get better doc behavior with this conversion. currently you set the idle a little high and rich so when you put it in gear the load doesn't stall the motor. hoping with the computer this wont be an issues as the computer should adjust to keep the idle RPM at what ever is set.

    I'm going back to the junk yard this weekend, I know where a few more PCM for a TBI system are at. I'll see if I can grab you a 7427 or 8625. Just pay me back and cover shipping ($20 for the PCM + $5 core + ~$3 environmental fee + shipping)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fast355 View Post
    I used the 7427 with a simple park/neutral switch, it is simply a matter of enabling the 700r4 logic. Auto trans/TCC only switches. Input signal on one wire of the 3 (forget which) and it works great.

    If it is a Mercruiser several companies make an adaper that sandwiches between the marine manifold and riser and holds an O2 sensor.

    I did a TPI 7730 on a TPI marine conversion and simply wired the kill switch into the coil output between the module and coil. Worked beautifully! used a newer marine thermostat housing off a Vortec L31 marine engine thay had the same bolt pattern angle.

    7427 works in Open Loop only very well too!

    I never use different Idle/Off Idle tables. Would be easy to set the switch over to Zero MPH and disable the Idle parameters completely.
    from my research the 7427 & 8625 are basically the same... so shouldn't this one work well in open loop too?

    my boat is an OMC. I have seen the adapter that place the O2 in a block between the manifold and riser. this was one of my 1st thoughts but I'm Z-height limited i have about 3/8" between the top of the riser and the sun deck. (see pictures below)

    not sure what the T stat housing get me... my Tstat housing has a water in, water to the GM pump, 2 lines out that cool the exhaust.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Quote Originally Posted by keaton View Post
    I would like to do closed loop at some point but for starting off (till i get an O2 sensor in) open would work.

    I'm hoping to get better doc behavior with this conversion. currently you set the idle a little high and rich so when you put it in gear the load doesn't stall the motor. hoping with the computer this wont be an issues as the computer should adjust to keep the idle RPM at what ever is set.

    I'm going back to the junk yard this weekend, I know where a few more PCM for a TBI system are at. I'll see if I can grab you a 7427 or 8625. Just pay me back and cover shipping ($20 for the PCM + $5 core + ~$3 environmental fee + shipping)


    from my research the 7427 & 8625 are basically the same... so shouldn't this one work well in open loop too?

    my boat is an OMC. I have seen the adapter that place the O2 in a block between the manifold and riser. this was one of my 1st thoughts but I'm Z-height limited i have about 3/8" between the top of the riser and the sun deck. (see pictures below)

    not sure what the T stat housing get me... my Tstat housing has a water in, water to the GM pump, 2 lines out that cool the exhaust.
    I had to use the newer housing because I went with TPI, not TBI.

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    I have a 16197427 that I would trade for your 16168625 if you would like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by keaton View Post
    I'm going back to the junk yard this weekend, I know where a few more PCM for a TBI system are at. I'll see if I can grab you a 7427 or 8625. Just pay me back and cover shipping ($20 for the PCM + $5 core + ~$3 environmental fee + shipping)
    Thanks for the offer, at this time I'm good on spare TBI computers.

    dave w

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast355 View Post
    I had to use the newer housing because I went with TPI, not TBI.
    Ah ok, that makes since now. I would go TBI or TPI but finding parts on the cheap has been hard. I'm still looking for a TBI Unit. TBI seem easier in my application as i need an adapter plate to bolt it on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stokes1114 View Post
    I have a 16197427 that I would trade for your 16168625 if you would like.
    let me see if I can make this work for what I need 1st.


    do you think the O2 being the the path of 1 cylinder will be enough? I know getting the bank average is better but i have limited options.
    any issues with the O2 being right off the port/cylinder head exit?


    TBI units. I can find Dodge Units on the V8s all day long but they are high impedance injectors and the ecu needs low impedance. what if i got new injectors and replaced them Low Z injectors and put all the chevy sensors in the unit (IAC, TPS, IAT, MAP). has anyone tried this? will the injector fit? I'm assuming the throttle body bore size will be large enough to flow the air i need as its coming off a similar size V8. thoughts on this?

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