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Thread: Newbie question regarding Red/Blue PCMs

  1. #16
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    Buddrow,

    Finally got around to pulling valve covers and getting cylinder head casting number...10235772. From my online research and reading, these were the "best" 96+ heads to use when rebuilding a Chevy 4.3L V6. As for doing any port-matching of the intake-to-head mating surfaces, I have to admit that I didn't do anything in those areas since I had no previous experience doing that so just ignored it. Were you successful in confirming the potential effects of different heights having an impact? Because this was not a serious performance build, I wasn't concerned with it when I put the motor together.

    I found my vacuum gauge and will begin a serious and methodical search for any leaks in the top half of the motor.

    Blaine

    UPDATE: I hooked up my vac gauge to the EGR vacuum port at the base of the TBI. After several cycles of start, run, rough idle while struggling to keep running, then dying, restart again, struggle, and die once more, the motor finally settled down to running longer than 30 seconds to a minute. With the vac gauge installed, the readings started at 20 lbs, the bounced between 16.5 - 18 lbs. After several restarts, the engine would idle until I turned off the key. What appears to have been a marking point was when the engine temperature reached around 200 deg F which resulted in the radiator fan kicking on. Don't know if the temp is is of any significance but I thought I'd mention it. After letting the engine cool, attempted another restart and it started up and ran fine. After these multiple restart, I am now beginning to under if the ECM "learned" something and is now using those settings to control the motor.

    As part of arriving at this somewhat acceptable condition, I did a few other checks:
    (1) sprayed starter fluid along the mating surfaces between intake and heads - NO CHANGE
    (2) sprayed fluid onto the base of the TBI as well at mating areas for sensors--TPS, IAC, and MAP - NO CHANGE engine started, idled, then died.
    (3) disconnected ESC - NO CHANGE engine started, idled, then died.
    (4) disconnected TPS - NO CHANGE engine started, idled, then died.

    I will return tomorrow attempt to start the engine and continue to monitor performance.
    Last edited by 57 Handyman; 4 Weeks Ago at 07:02 PM. Reason: added information

  2. #17
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    Buddrow,

    My apologies and sorry for the extended delay in getting back to you. Well, I did return to the shop the following day and to my great dismay and disappointment, the problems were back! Talk about being pissed...I walked away for several days and went about doing other things. Now, I'm back to getting this darn truck of mine fixed and on the road.

    So, where to start???

    First, I was able to get a 1227747 on Ebay out of a 90-91 4.3L; it should arrive sometime this week. Do I need to do mods to it before plugging it in? You've stated I need to get the mechanical stuff straight, but I don't know what else to do. Any recommendations?

    Thanks for your assistance.

  3. #18
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    Double check all grounds. Also, jump diagnostic pins or hook up laptop/tunerpro to gather any codes that may be stored. Could also be valves adjusted a tad too tight.

    Buddrow
    If it don't fit force it, if it don't force fit f&%@ it!

  4. #19
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    handyman how was it running before it was modified? was the check engine light on or anything. when you are hooked to it datalog and record and save a file then post the file.
    Last edited by ony; 2 Weeks Ago at 05:50 AM.

  5. #20
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    Hey Anthony,

    When I first started the motor, it was a fresh rebuild with all the internal engine mods. It ran just fine with the 4288 ECM. Then, something happened when I attached the ECM-to-PCM adapter I made as a means to hook up the 8625. I went the adapter route because I wanted to have an easy escape route to go back to the 4288 in the event I screwed up tuning the 8625. However, since the motor wouldn't start with the 8625, I decided to go back to using the 4288. Unfortunately, that is when all the problems with rough idle, struggling to stay running, and shutdowns/dying surfaced. These problems even persisted when I inserted the PROMs you sent.

    Interestingly enough, for some reason, I don't get any check engine lights unless I disconnect a sensor.

    lastly, I have not done any data logging because: (1) I am still learning how to get my computer to sync with the AutoProm, (2) then connect via the ALDL. Besides that, the motor won't stay running long enough to attempt any data logging.

    If it isn't one thing, it is another...
    Last edited by 57 Handyman; 1 Week Ago at 01:29 PM.

  6. #21
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    I made a adapter and got 1 wire wrong and blowed the modgul in the dist. truck wouldn't start with the 288 reinstalled.it is a possiblityyou may have damaged the modgule most of the time the vehecele don't run at all but it might run badly.if there is a orielys or auto zone over they can check it. tell them to load it heavy when its checked. if it is bad or going bad it wont turn on the cel light. all the red underlines I must not be speling very good this morning.

  7. #22
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    LOL...wow, before I installed the adapter, I checked and rechecked that each of the wires was attached to the correct pin in the schematics I had. That is not to say, the schematics were 100% correct. I also did continuity checks with a VOM.

    Regarding the Ignition Contol Module, I had considered it as a possible source of problem but had not done a swap out because the rough idle problems disappeared and the engine ran fine at higher RPMs. Would this be the situation, and make sense, if the ICM was bad or going bad?

  8. #23
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    Buddrow,

    I got the 7747 ECM but it didn't come with a PROM. So, on a whim, I stuck one of the PROMs that Anthony had sent me some time ago for the 4288. This one was a BCC BARL and had been modified for no EGR. Don't know if this was/is an unadvised move. Anyway, the engine started up fine and ran for as long as I would let it run. I turned off the ignition and did several restarts. In park, the idle is a bit on the high side (11-1300 rpm) but the motor isn't struggling or slows down and dies.

    I did notice the Check Engine Light faintly flickering but it doesn't display any codes when I turn off the ignition and place the key in ON. I connected a SNAP ON Scanner but am not able to get any readings nor can I get the scanner to display any live data. So, it appears there is something amiss with the ALDL and codes when the 7747 is installed with the 4288 PROM.

    Because the 7747 with the 4288 PROM resulted in the engine running for an extended period, I was hoping to attempt data logging. However, this issue with the ALDL might not enable me to do that.

    Since I have the MOATES AutoProm, I was thinking of grabbing a 7747 BIN that closely matches my 4.3L TBI with 700r4 and burning a PROM. The one that comes close is the [AKDX 87 G-M-R-V Van 4.3TBI 700r4] that I found in the thread...

    http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...Information-42

    One question that I have is will I have to load appropriate sets of .xdf and .adx files into TunerPro in order to do the burn? If yes, which ones would I need/use?

    Once again, one step forward, one step backward....
    Last edited by 57 Handyman; 1 Week Ago at 03:30 PM.

  9. #24
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    that is a good plan the747 was in limp mode.these should work.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  10. #25
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    Thanks Anthony, after I sent the response, I found those two files with the BIN I downloaded. Now, I need to look/find locally or order some PROMs. I don't have access to the device to erase the PROMs that I have. I also plan to send back to you both PROMs and the ALDL cable shortly.

    As I mentioned, for some reason, the shop's SNAP ON scanner was not able to grab any data or codes. I am hoping that isn't another problem I have to resolve before I can do data logging.

    Have a good week!

  11. #26
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    UPDATE: On Monday, I tried again to read codes with a scanner. Unfortunately, the scanner would not connect to the ECM via the ALDL. I suspected there were codes because the CEL kept flashing although faintly. So, I went back to the tried and true bent paperclip. The only code was 51--PROM incorrectly installed. SURPRISE!!!

    At this point, I have stopped starting and running the engine until I can install a proper PROM for this ECM. Earlier this week, I found and order 4 new 2732A PROMs which should arrive by this weekend. Not surprisingly, I was not able to find any PROMs locally.

  12. #27
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    Hopefully the 2732's are new and blank otherwise you shall need to erase them. The PROMs are not interchangeable between the 288 and 747 unfortunately as you discovered.
    If it don't fit force it, if it don't force fit f&%@ it!

  13. #28
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    Buddrow,

    Yes, the PROMs are NEW and BLANK. Unfortunately, I did not receive them the other day; I was hoping to burn the PROM and install/test them out this weekend. I have downloaded and saved the .bin, .xdf and .adx files to work with my '92 4.3L with 700R4 transmission. I've opened TunerPro RT and looked at the info but it is all greek to me. Earlier in this thread, you mentioned that you are running a 7747 in your own truck. What modifications do you recommend I make to the AKDX 87 G-M-R-V Van 4.3TBI 700r4.bin?

    When I was searching for PROMs in Honolulu, one of the sales associates at an electronic supply store cautioned me that he found some old INTEL PROMS would not erase and re-program/burn properly. I was wondering if anyone had experienced this. Also, has anyone had any luck with purchasing and using the $25.00 UV Erasers sold on ebay?

    Thanks for your help.

  14. #29
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    Here we go again: Is it me or what...don't answer that.

    Well, I received the 2732A PROMs and have been trying to learn how to write/burn the .bin to the PROMs. After spending half the morning, looking in and throughout all of the TunerPro screens and online here, I find a reference on the Moates site which indicates that there is no BURN or WRITE function in TP and that I need to download and install FlashBurn. Eureka!!!! But wait, there is more!

    Once FlashBurn is installed and working with my laptop, I find that the combination of the AutoPROM and FlashBurn will not allow me to burn 2732A PROMs. The combo only allows READ-only function. YIKES...so now what? Is this correct or am I once again missing something? Do I need to find another device to burn 2732A PROMs?

    Unless someone tells me otherwise and/or presents some other options for me to burn 2732A PROMs, my next step appears to be to reconfigure my 7747 ECM by installing a modified ZIF socket and use 28-pin EEPROMs. Once again...live and learn!!

  15. #30
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    handyman the autoprom wont burn a chipthat is not electircly arasable I think.if you post the bin you want burned I will burn you one and you can check the 747 out [[ before you go though the putting in a socket]].

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