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Thread: high map on hwy

  1. #1
    Fuel Injected! PJG1173's Avatar
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    high map on hwy

    Ok, so just when I thought things were going good I took my truck out on the HWY 17 bypass (all 3 miles of it we have) where I could safely get up to 65 - 75 without hitting a stoplight. there are several bridges and overpasses so I though that would be a good place to get some logs. needless to say I never got that fast. at about 60ish MPH in 4th in TC lockup 1900 RPM map was at 95+ kpa. I had to keep the trottle at 50% to maintain 65 MPH any more and I would have been in PE. what gives? do I need more/less timing? attached is a copy of my logfile and the adx file i'm using. If someone could look at it and point me in a direction that would be helpful.
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    87 4Runner, 15" spring lift, 3" body, chevy vortec 355, 5.29 gears, 38.5x15.5x15" Boggers, 280hr, 16168625 running $0D
    93 S10, 12" spring lift, 4.56 gears, F/R lockers, 36x12.5x15 TSL's, long tube headers, 266HR cam, p&p vortec heads, $0D Marine MPFI.
    05 Silverado, 2' lift, 4" exhaust, Bully Dog programmer,

  2. #2
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    Something is wrong that's for sure, I'll try to find some time to look at your log today but tell us which vehicle, and specs.

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

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    Fuel Injected! PJG1173's Avatar
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    this is on my 93 chevy s10 ex cab
    4.56 gears
    36x12.5x15 TSL's
    01 4.3 block bored .030
    9.8:1 compression
    edelbrock 2114 dual plane vortec intake
    transdapt tbi adapter
    61lb injectors @ 13psi
    adjustable FP regulator
    TBI with ultimate tbi mods
    ported and polished vortec heads
    back cut valves
    comp cams 266hr
    1.52 roller tip rockers
    hedman long tube headers
    kwik-cat racing cat
    cold air intake
    built 4l60e
    2075 stall converter
    Crane HI6 CDI ignition
    87 4Runner, 15" spring lift, 3" body, chevy vortec 355, 5.29 gears, 38.5x15.5x15" Boggers, 280hr, 16168625 running $0D
    93 S10, 12" spring lift, 4.56 gears, F/R lockers, 36x12.5x15 TSL's, long tube headers, 266HR cam, p&p vortec heads, $0D Marine MPFI.
    05 Silverado, 2' lift, 4" exhaust, Bully Dog programmer,

  4. #4
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    That thing should run better than that!

    Your open loop the entire time so I'm guessing your tuning VE by the wide band. WB AFR are in the ball park. Spark advance is a little low, especially at idle around 14 degrees and 650 RPM with a slight fluctuation of MAP. I would raise the RPM up to 750 or so, set base timing at 10 degrees? Also set base timing in chip from 0 to 10 and see if that fluctuation goes away. If not look for a vacuum leak.

    Are you using the Narrow Band simulator? Your O2 readings and cross counts are weird?

    I can see where your trying to cruise at 60ish MPH and MAP is 95ish with steady state TPS. Narrow band reading is way lean. WB is close. One thing that stands out is WB AFR is fluctuating, this may be a cylinder misfire or miss, I would check actual timing with a light on balancer and see if data log spark is showing same as timing light. Also pull plugs and read them to see if one is off. If one has a miss or one cylinder is picking up a vacuum leak it will throw everything out of wack...

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

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    Fuel Injected! PJG1173's Avatar
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    Base timing is set to 6* and properly reflected in the bin and adx. Idle timing is 20* verified with a dial back timing light. I've looked for a vac leak but might be something that only leaks while under a load. The NB is the factory one when i was simulating the reading was more stable. at anything below 50 mph cruising this is great. WOT is on point pe 12.8 ish through the rpm's. just seems like this thing can't hack rolling down the hwy at 60 - 65. I wish I would have better datalogged this thing when it was stock.
    Last edited by PJG1173; 03-09-2012 at 01:14 PM. Reason: darn android predictive spelling
    87 4Runner, 15" spring lift, 3" body, chevy vortec 355, 5.29 gears, 38.5x15.5x15" Boggers, 280hr, 16168625 running $0D
    93 S10, 12" spring lift, 4.56 gears, F/R lockers, 36x12.5x15 TSL's, long tube headers, 266HR cam, p&p vortec heads, $0D Marine MPFI.
    05 Silverado, 2' lift, 4" exhaust, Bully Dog programmer,

  6. #6
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    Timing I saw in log at idle was only 14? So we're losing 6 degrees somewhere? Since you have a dial back timing light see where timing is at higher rpm, in the data log there was a lot of 24ish degrees around 2400 RPM. The fluctuating WB AFR reading still seems to indicate a miss fire, at this point reading plugs would still be a good idea

    I'm not familiar with the Crane HI6 CDI ignition at all?

    Vortec heads have a very different spark plug?

    Vacuum leaks are much more prevalent at idle when vacuum is higher then say 95 MAP when there is no vacuum... I have found vacuum leaks with short bursts of starting fluid when brake clean and carb clean have failed. Please be very careful using SHORT bursts of starting fluid as it is very flammable. Another approach is a propane soldering torch unlit wide open pointed at anywhere they could be vacuum and listen for rise in idle.

    But I don't think that is your issue at 60 MPH at 95 MAP 40%+ TPS is just dead on power? Do you have a thick vacuum hose that won't collapse hooked to MAP from center vacuum port on rear of TBI between fuel lines? I did see AFR go to 10 when decelerating at one point then climbed back up to 17.9 before it became stable again?

    Just going over some basics here, I don't know if they will help maybe someone else can see something I missed?

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  7. #7
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    Here's your 6 degrees missing in adx, it is a note in the spark advance value "Change last number(offset) to initial advance of engine, for correct display."

    Last number offset in conversion is 0.00000 and you have 6 degrees so it should be 6.00000

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  8. #8
    Fuel Injected! PJG1173's Avatar
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    I'm replaying the log right now and I don't see 14* at idle the lowest I'm showing with the idle flag on is 16.5 and thats only a couple hits. I've used the timing light several times to verify timing and it has been spot on every time. I just changed the spark plugs a couple weeks ago and they all looked the same. Nothing real notable. the vac line going to the MAP sensor is plastic with rubber boots at each end. I've checked it for kinks and cracks. above 60mph throttle is unresponsive to say the least. I figured afr dropping when I let off the throttle is DE not being tuned yet IDK.
    87 4Runner, 15" spring lift, 3" body, chevy vortec 355, 5.29 gears, 38.5x15.5x15" Boggers, 280hr, 16168625 running $0D
    93 S10, 12" spring lift, 4.56 gears, F/R lockers, 36x12.5x15 TSL's, long tube headers, 266HR cam, p&p vortec heads, $0D Marine MPFI.
    05 Silverado, 2' lift, 4" exhaust, Bully Dog programmer,

  9. #9
    Fuel Injected! PJG1173's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EagleMark View Post
    Here's your 6 degrees missing in adx, it is a note in the spark advance value "Change last number(offset) to initial advance of engine, for correct display."

    Last number offset in conversion is 0.00000 and you have 6 degrees so it should be 6.00000
    yes thats what is in my adx file. should be in the one I posted.
    87 4Runner, 15" spring lift, 3" body, chevy vortec 355, 5.29 gears, 38.5x15.5x15" Boggers, 280hr, 16168625 running $0D
    93 S10, 12" spring lift, 4.56 gears, F/R lockers, 36x12.5x15 TSL's, long tube headers, 266HR cam, p&p vortec heads, $0D Marine MPFI.
    05 Silverado, 2' lift, 4" exhaust, Bully Dog programmer,

  10. #10
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    My bad I was using mine...

    Sure is dead looking on power up there?

    What does your BLMs look like in closed loop? Wondering if your wide band is off? Calibrated to free air? Ground to engine block?

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  11. #11
    Fuel Injected! gregs78cam's Avatar
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    Just as a test, you might try bypassing the Crane Ignition module. I tried running the Camaro with my Mallory Digital 6, and it really didn't like something about the spark. To I just bypassed it until I can do further testing.
    1978 Camaro Type LT, 383, Dual TBI, '7427, 4L80E
    1981 Camaro Z-28 Clone, T-Tops, 350/TH350
    1981 Camaro Berlinetta, V-6, 3spd
    1974 Chevy/GMC Truck, '90 TBI 350, '7427, TH350, NP203, 6" lift, 35s

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregs78cam View Post
    Just as a test, you might try bypassing the Crane Ignition module. I tried running the Camaro with my Mallory Digital 6, and it really didn't like something about the spark. To I just bypassed it until I can do further testing.
    if the weather is nice enough tomorrow I'll bypass it and see what happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleMark View Post
    My bad I was using mine...

    Sure is dead looking on power up there?

    What does your BLMs look like in closed loop? Wondering if your wide band is off? Calibrated to free air? Ground to engine block?
    I haven't tried putting it in CL in months so couldn't tell you. I'll try that tomorrow. I calibrated the WB to free air a couple weeks ago and it is grounded to the same wire comming in from the block to the pcm. the funny thing is this only happens on the hwy. It runs pretty good any other time. just running around town its fine, good throttle response, takeoff power, dosent struggle to get up to speed. I know its about arodynamic as an umbella at those speeds and trying to turn 75lb a piece tires will put a load on it. I just dont understand. maybe its just a v6 thing.
    87 4Runner, 15" spring lift, 3" body, chevy vortec 355, 5.29 gears, 38.5x15.5x15" Boggers, 280hr, 16168625 running $0D
    93 S10, 12" spring lift, 4.56 gears, F/R lockers, 36x12.5x15 TSL's, long tube headers, 266HR cam, p&p vortec heads, $0D Marine MPFI.
    05 Silverado, 2' lift, 4" exhaust, Bully Dog programmer,

  13. #13
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJG1173 View Post
    if the weather is nice enough tomorrow I'll bypass it and see what happens.



    I haven't tried putting it in CL in months so couldn't tell you. I'll try that tomorrow. I calibrated the WB to free air a couple weeks ago and it is grounded to the same wire comming in from the block to the pcm. the funny thing is this only happens on the hwy. It runs pretty good any other time. just running around town its fine, good throttle response, takeoff power, dosent struggle to get up to speed. I know its about arodynamic as an umbella at those speeds and trying to turn 75lb a piece tires will put a load on it. I just dont understand. maybe its just a v6 thing.
    I don't think so? 36 inch tires and 4:56 gears and that much work done on motor, cam is 1400 to 5400 RPM so your in the power range... should really do better. Inline six jeeps do fine with that tire and gear on stock motors.

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  14. #14
    Fuel Injected! PJG1173's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EagleMark View Post
    I don't think so? 36 inch tires and 4:56 gears and that much work done on motor, cam is 1400 to 5400 RPM so your in the power range... should really do better. Inline six jeeps do fine with that tire and gear on stock motors.
    actually the operating range is 1800 - 5000 (http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/c...?csid=575&sb=0) cruising at 60-60 is right there at the bottom of that. running the 1.52's increased my duration a hair I suppose and I know I lost some low lift velosity from the port job. I know this thing pulls well over 5k and doesn't run out of breath. this just has me stumped. I might give the tb adapter a shot of propane and see if it really is leaking. I shot it with carb cleaner last weekend and it didn't indicate it was.

    could this be timing related?
    Last edited by PJG1173; 03-09-2012 at 06:13 PM.
    87 4Runner, 15" spring lift, 3" body, chevy vortec 355, 5.29 gears, 38.5x15.5x15" Boggers, 280hr, 16168625 running $0D
    93 S10, 12" spring lift, 4.56 gears, F/R lockers, 36x12.5x15 TSL's, long tube headers, 266HR cam, p&p vortec heads, $0D Marine MPFI.
    05 Silverado, 2' lift, 4" exhaust, Bully Dog programmer,

  15. #15
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    Hmmm? Seems like differant sites have differant specs for that cam, probably same grind has higher low end RPM range in 4.3 then one I looked at was 5.7 on eBay... did you degree that cam when installed?

    Sure could be timing related! We will know when you go without that crane box, but then you've checked timing? I'd like to see that swinging WB AFR go away... I'm kinda lost. We did have a thread here about a 5.7L vortec head swap and found a export 5.7L TBI bin and timing tables were completly differant. Have you compared them to what you have? It looks like a 9.8 degree bias on top of your off throttle timing table IIRC...

    Since your doing some testing tomorrow you could add some timing in that range and see if it starts to put out some power? Or if you had a set of smaller tires like 33s would get some more RPM and see if it comes to life?

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

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