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Thread: 94-95 $EE xdf (EEXTRA)

  1. #31
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    That PDF looks very good, ill have a read through, heres a timing diagram I did when we tuned his TR6 with a radical cam, he had it a fair way out.

    I have a TR6 engine for my Spitfire and that has the same timing error, not from the factory but that someone has put in at a later date.

    What is the "OP" where things reside? Sorry if its a basic question...!

    Cheers
    Kevin
    TR6 INJECTION TIMING V3.jpg

  2. #32
    Fuel Injected! jthompson122183's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinodb1 View Post
    What is the "OP" where things reside? Sorry if its a basic question...!
    OP is short for "Original Post" this is were i will add new versions so i don't have to remember which post number had the attachment. Its all good.
    97z28 A4 obd1 swap(16188051)
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  3. #33
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    It appears, from the label, to be the position of latest closing of the injector, under ideal conditions.

    If its set 6 degrees BTDC(Firing) that backs up fuel until the next rotation because the intake valve is already closed.

    If its set to 6 degrees BTDC(Induction) thats then been blowing most of the fuel out of the exhaust on overlap, what some call "the valve rock"

    To get a 320 degree duration(ADV) cam running properly in a TR6(Only 2500cc) we had to get it right, it would hardly run before that.

    So where I am going with this is that if we want to run more than a Hotcam, say an 847 in an LT engine then it may be possible to fix all the issues like cam surge etc by just correcting the Injection timing!

    Triumph did not get it correct initially, they had worked it out by 1972, Cosworth of course did know how to do it!

    The question is what does the "6" in the table actually mean.........if EEHACK could be made to dynamically change that whilst running that could be very interesting for testing.

    The idea being that instead of running the injectors at a duty cycle of 85% or so at WOT, we can drop that down to say 30-40% and time the injection better for a bit more power but more importantly fix up the low end driveability of a more radical cam and overly large injectors for idle.

    To give an indication by changing the Injection timing on the TR6 we got a higher idle vacuum at the same revs with the 320 degree cam than with the standard 280 degree one, when its not revving it drives and sounds mostly like a STD car!

    Its an realm of possible improvement I have not seen talked about before that I would like to test if someone can sort it out.

    However only my 96 is running at present and LT1edit cannot do such things, I wasnt fortunate enough to get Tunercats before it was operationally onsold to JET.

    Hence my comments that I was pleased to see some work being done on 96,97's.

    Will that lead to a OBD2 XXHACK version?

    Cheers
    Kevin

  4. #34
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    Ok have tested 003 from "OP" and all is good.

    Cheers

  5. #35
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    You can use the following conversion formula for end of injection table.

    720-(x*5.625)
    The result will be degrees after top dead center.
    I still need an osciloscope to confirm my theory. It is partially confirmed due to vilefly awsome scope graphs.

    I actually make a patch to control this value realtime through modified eehack program.
    I was just about to test how changing this value affect idle quality and one of the injectors died.

    kevinobd1 do you have some 96-97 lt1edit bin files to look at. Maybe they are not encrypted and can be edited manually
    Last edited by kur4o; 01-05-2018 at 02:27 AM.

  6. #36
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    Hi Kur4o thanks for that.

    So are you saying the End Of injection when its set to "6" STD is 33 Degrees ATDC from 0/720, because there is also TDC at 360 Degrees, the start of the intake stroke! We need to be talking about the same place!?

    Based on the article(PDF) above posted by Jthompson it would appear there could also be a table attached to that value that is load/rpm based, that would be VERY useful to find.....

    At idle the IPW is 1.4m/s and 18m/s is about 702 degrees at 6500 RPM, so that would be about 54.5 degrees of injection period at idle..

    So the best place to end the injection would be about 460 degrees after TDC 0......which is approximately the maximum intake valve open point...see my chart above..

    Something to try anyway!

    Ok cool. is the EEhack patch available for my 94.

    I have LT1 edit file for the 94 and 96..

    I have the conversion program that converts 94 files to BINS, it does also convert 96 ones, but I dont know if thats the correct transfer algorithm for a 96.....I can see data in Tunerpro if I open the 96 BIN but its all over the place....as expected.

    Shall I post a STD 94 BIN converted from LT1Edit and a 96 one the same?

    Cheers
    Kevin

  7. #37
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    I don`t want to spam in this thread. If you don`t mind we can move the conversation here.

    http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...h-thread/page4

  8. #38
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    Ok will do, ill post the 94 and 96 bins there..
    Kevin

  9. #39
    Fuel Injected! fbody_Brian's Avatar
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    I'm really interested in being able to tune eoit and would love to understand how to make adjustments to it. I'm trying to clean up some of the raw fuel smell at idle because of my cams overlap. Any more information on this would be awesome.
    I played with it a small bit, but without really understanding what it does I don't want to change much.

    I bumped the 6 up 1 at a time to see what would happen. When I set it to 9 the car wouldn't stay running and the wideband was pegged at 9:1.
    I put it back to stock, but I would like to improve my idle tuning and exhaust fumes, and I am hoping that this might be the ticket.
    1994 LT1/4L60E Formula

  10. #40
    LT1 specialist steveo's Avatar
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    sometimes you just need to raise your idle speed, you know...

    things get nasty in the manifold with lots of overlap, adjacent cylinders steal pooled/unburned fuel from each other, and if you don't get a complete intake charge to a cylinder due to overlap effecting manifold flow linearity in a range, you start getting random lean hits on those cylinders, which results in horrible combustion and barfing that unused fuel out the exhaust.

    a little more airflow will increase linearity and at a certain point, things get better and you can tune it out for a clean burn again.

    if you make injection happen later, you might sacrifice some atomization, but you might get more fuel in your intake charge when the valve is completely open and you have the highest vacuum in that intake port, so it's definitely something to play with

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by kur4o View Post
    These are the most recent I have.
    I am still trying to list all the different operating systems used on 96-97 bins.
    I got some bins from the forum, but still far from complete list.
    Hi kur4o, can you export those databases to .i64 format? My IDA doesn't like the .idb files :( Thanks!

    [EDIT]
    Nevermind, I managed to open those :)
    Last edited by dzidaV8; 03-15-2018 at 09:48 PM.

  12. #42
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    I guess you are trying the 64 bit version of IDA. it uses the i64 files. The 32 bit uses idb.

    On 96-97 bins eside main loop is almost identical wih 94-95 bins. Some stuff and extra tables are added though.
    Tside is 2 bins in one file, first 32kb is same and the second 64kb is switched between two 32kb segments.
    So you got part1-32kb+part2.1-32kb
    and part1-32kb+part2.2-32kb.
    I did not dig enough to find how the switching is handled, but part2.1 and 2.2 use shared resources as ram, tables and addressing from the first 32kb.

    There are some different calibrations. Routines are not much different but the relative addressing is mismatch, so you have to match the tables` addresses between different OS.

    If you have a 96-97 PCM on hand you can try datalog through ALDL line. It has some built in messages, or you can patch one with the data structure from 94-95 PCM.

  13. #43
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    OK, I made some progress on this 96 dissassembly.
    Reflash is done by OBD2 VPW protocol, ALDL line is mainly used for communication with Vette CCM, there are datalog messages, but very limited. Most of the data is accessed thorough OBD2 PIDs.
    There's VPW 4X mode support, so the reflash should be quite fast. I'm beginning to think this will be a neat PCM to work with and great upgrade to $EE :) There are a LOT of PIDs to datalog and to choose from, so speedlog will be easy to do.

  14. #44
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    I’m super happy to see you obd 1 swapped your a4 I’m trying to do the same to my vette now. I’m waiting on the resistor for the pcm and the cable so I can give this a shot. How did you deal with the transmission electronics issue?

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lockdun1 View Post
    I’m super happy to see you obd 1 swapped your a4 I’m trying to do the same to my vette now. I’m waiting on the resistor for the pcm and the cable so I can give this a shot. How did you deal with the transmission electronics issue?
    I responded to your pm
    97z28 A4 obd1 swap(16188051)
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