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Thread: Help pick the correct bin plzz

  1. #31
    Fuel Injected! CDeeZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john123 View Post
    I agree. I would never recommend this programming software to anyone.... A person would be 1000 times better off. Buying a stand alone fuel injection system!!!! 900 dollars spent on something you can actually do something with
    That's not what I said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Ed_p View Post
    I wish I knew what this Ostrich is ... Do I need that too?

    I'll have to let Dave and some of the other guys speak about the Ostrich but it's an emulator and no you don't need one. It's a matter of convenience more than anything.

    The ONLY stuff you should need is a chip burner, some chips, and a datalogging cable. You will need a way to get the chips into the ECM/PCM you're working on, either a ZIF socket, a G1 adapter etc.... All the rest of the stuff available is just "extra credit".....

    My tuning toolbox for OBD1 is limited compared to someone like Dave. I have a burner, chips and an ALDL cable.

    DON'T GIVE UP.... Stick with it and ask questions...... The benefit to learning how to do this yourself vs buying a self tuning standalone is you will develop an understanding of HOW and WHY....... Don't get me wrong some of the standalone systems are great... I for one have to understand how something works which is usually the hard route compared to buying a self tuning setup......

    And listen to what Dave is saying about accomplished tuners using a wideband....... IMO it is the ONLY way to go about it..... I never liked using BLMs or fuel trims for tuning OBD1 or OBD2. AND! Dave is nice enough that he has shared his WBO2 spreadsheet with the community!!!!!!!
    Last edited by CDeeZ; 03-30-2018 at 10:51 AM.

  2. #32
    Fuel Injected! CDeeZ's Avatar
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    Here's what I use to tune OBD1.... It should really be all a person needs. Everything else is a nice bonus to have like I said.


    Here is the Moates ALDL cable for logging data.


    The box on the right with the aluminum panel is an ALDL interface that I made. It serves the same function as the Moates cable next to it but it will be hardwired in the truck permanently.


    The PCM I'm working with is a 7427


    Here is the chip burner. Note the orientation of the chip in relation to the burner as depicted in the drawing on the sticker.


    And here is a 27SF512 chip installed in the burner ready to be written to/erased/read.


    Note the notch in the end of the chip. This is important for properly orienting the chip in the burner AND the PCM.


    I hardmount WBO2s in a project of this magnitude usually. Using a WBO2 will make your tuning more accurate AND easier.


    This is all you really need and the WBO2 is optional but HIGHLY reccommended. Aside from this you just make sure your chip is in the burner correctly, blank check, PUT IN THE CORRECT OFFSETS FOR THE CHIP AND BINARY SIZE YOU'RE WORKING WITH. And program your chip.

  3. #33
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    I got a little further today. I was able to emulate a chip , run the truck on that BIN file, I made changes to Idle speed to make sure I knew what I was doing, commited them to the running config, idle dropped, didn't save file. reloaded, idle was good again. So that tells me that I have established basics. This BIN file is very strange though. I got it off of here. The engine comes out tomorrow so I wont be able to play much until the new beast goes in. In the interim I will be hunting down a BIn file that matches that engine as close as possible...and we'll go from there. I sure wish Moates suggested to buy a HDR1 so I could of used my running BIN file from the truck, damn thing runs so good... I couldn't kill the engine, knowing full well a new one was in the cards, I never changed the oil, filter , nothing, SOB wont die... 20180324_143910.jpg

  4. #34
    Fuel Injected! CDeeZ's Avatar
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    Engine looks good! Consider a single plane next time. A dual plane is good for street manners with a carburetor since it's dependent on vacuum signal for fuel delivery. EFI doesn't care though!! I put a single plane on my 355 TBI I'm working on and I haven't driven it yet because I'm still working on building the 4L80 for it, but I can tell it's going to rip! I don't expect it to sacrifice one bit of low end with the single plane either.

  5. #35
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    higher RPMS like the single plane for sure. Dual plane is better for low end grunt... it's only cammed for 4500rpm

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed_p View Post
    higher RPMS like the single plane for sure. Dual plane is better for low end grunt... it's only cammed for 4500rpm
    Does not matter with a TBI in the least. Once you dial in the fueling it will make every bit as much torque with a single plane as it does a dual plane and pull another 500-1,000 rpm up top. I was running a victor jr 2bbl on a Vortec headed TBI 350 with a factory LT4 cam with 1.6 rockers. Stock 1,600 rpm converter and 3.08 gears in my old 1983 G20 van. Stabbing the throttle from idle it would instantly burn the P295/50R17s off all the way through 1st gear. Around town and on the highway in OD with the converter locked it pulled every bit as well as the dual plane and when you hammered on the throttle and got some RPM in it, the thing absolutely ripped. I had a table top flat HP curve from 5,000-6,500 rpm with that little 203/210 @ .050 cam. Shifting at 6,500 rpm, I ran a 14.1 @ 101 on a 2.2s 60' time at 5,300 lbs.
    Last edited by Fast355; 04-02-2018 at 07:18 AM.

  7. #37
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    we'll agree to disagree then...ok?

  8. #38
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    Don't take it personal or anything. It's not really a matter of agreement or personal opinion. There are lots of posts on TGO where people kicked around the idea of running an single plane on a TBI setup. Unfortunately it seems most of them succumb to the notion that somehow a single plane means a noticeable sacrifice in low end torque and streetability. This could hold true with carbs like I mentioned because they are dependent on a consistent vacuum signal for fuel delivery, so you can't as easily have it both ways. With a carb you are forced to choose single plane for high RPM powa, or a dual plane for low RPM powa, knowing that there will be some compromise with either choice.

    TBI or EFI in general just doesn't care becuase it's going to inject the programmed amount of fuel in regardless. That's the difference. Look at the LS engines for example.... The LS1/LS6 style is basically a single plane short runner setup. The truck LS intakes are fugly, but also resemble a single plane or high rise intake setup. So there's precedent here, the OEMs have embraced this thinking.

    I think the problem is since TBI was basically a transitionary period from carbs to EFI, alot of the thinking, and even the parts are hold overs from the carb days..... Look at a stock TBI intake for example. Just a junky 2 barrel dual plane carbed intake basically...

    Hopefully I'll finish building this 4L80 soon that's going behind my 355 TBI with a single plane... I forsee that it will embarass many unknowing victims from one stoplight to another, as well as rip stumps out of the ground while laughing it all off.
    Last edited by CDeeZ; 04-02-2018 at 12:24 PM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDeeZ View Post
    Don't take it personal or anything. It's not really a matter of agreement or personal opinion. There are lots of posts on TGO where people kicked around the idea of running an single plane on a TBI setup. Unfortunately it seems most of them succumb to the notion that somehow a single plane means a noticeable sacrifice in low end torque and streetability. This could hold true with carbs like I mentioned because they are dependent on a consistent vacuum signal for fuel delivery, so you can't as easily have it both ways. With a carb you are forced to choose single plane for high RPM powa, or a dual plane for low RPM powa, knowing that there will be some compromise with either choice.

    TBI or EFI in general just doesn't care becuase it's going to inject the programmed amount of fuel in regardless. That's the difference. Look at the LS engines for example.... The LS1/LS6 style is basically a single plane short runner setup. The truck LS intakes are fugly, but also resemble a single plane or high rise intake setup. So there's precedent here, the OEMs have embraced this thinking.

    I think the problem is since TBI was basically a transitionary period from carbs to EFI, alot of the thinking, and even the parts are hold overs from the carb days..... Look at a stock TBI intake for example. Just a junky 2 barrel dual plane carbed intake basically...

    Hopefully I'll finish building this 4L80 soon that's going behind my 355 TBI with a single plane... I forsee that it will embarass many unknowing victims from one stoplight to another, as well as rip stumps out of the ground while laughing it all off.
    ALOT of people kicked it around but I have done it on more than one engine. I also messed with a 406 small block years ago that had two OEM 350 TBI units on top of a tunnel ram. It is one of the worst setups to run streetably with a carb, but with TBI it ran FLAWLESSLY. Idled at 850 rpm with the a/c on all day in gear and would pull all the way to 7,200 rpm. It was in a 39 Chevy with a 4L80E behind it.

    When edelbrock cast their intake manifold for the TBI to MPFI conversion system they used a low rise single plane similar to a Torker II. Incedentally a friend of mine just put a Torker II on a TBI powered Yukon that has a 350 TBI with a stock vortec cam. I have not even had a chance to mess with the tuning, but even on the stock tune the thing rips and pulls much more strongly across the whole powerband.
    Last edited by Fast355; 04-02-2018 at 01:03 PM.

  10. #40
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    Well I think if we compare carb to carb Dual plane does what I want and need it to do. My initial thought was if I couldn't get this TBI to tune right I'd have a backup plan to go spreadbore carb, ALSO - my builder only has the means to dyno a carb motor and he is testing a couple things that he has been working on and my engine is somewhat of a canvas for that, noting too too crazy, just something that he's been toying with so basically he needs to DYNO it in order for me to get my gratis work out of him, so there's allot of factors at play. When I want to go fast I jump in the Porsche. I just need this thing ( initially for sand, beach) but now I am moving to SD and I may need it for snow. I doubt it will ever go over 5K, cam is designed for 4500rpm. I'll post a dyno sheet here soon. His dad is sick and last weekend didn't happen. Someday when I build a 2wd street truck I'll spin it up to 7K, but first things first.. I won't have an engine builder so I'll have to find a SD builder...wish me luck

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed_p View Post
    I'd have a backup plan to go spreadbore carb.

    Don't do that.

  12. #42
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    don't you just love this sight[wisdom ever where]

  13. #43
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    I always have a backup plan... been around too long not to, plan for the worse expect the best

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ony View Post
    don't you just love this sight[wisdom ever where]
    No shartage of it is thar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed_p View Post
    I always have a backup plan... been around too long not to, plan for the worse expect the best
    So how's it coming are you making good progress still?
    Last edited by CDeeZ; 04-02-2018 at 03:38 PM.

  15. #45
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    I'm in standstill mode as far as tuning. I had to drop the truck over to my buddys to yank the old engine meanwhile im trying to get the new one on the dyno and get over there to clean and paint the engine compartment. I did manage to get some basics down. I feel confident that I should be able to throw a BIN at that thing and get it going to some extent. I just need to find someone with a similar setup. The driver for TunerPro seems to be a bit "shaky" , I;m going to try an older version I found on Moates and with a deidcated XP box as my work laptop has too many things going on and they may be interfering( ?) I have a couple weeks yet.. but im not able to practice because I have no truck... which is why I was somewhat frantic last week, knowing I was going to put the old girl on the lift.

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