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Thread: Anyone mind helping me set up an idle on code59?

  1. #1
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    Anyone mind helping me set up an idle on code59?

    I resently switched my fiero with a 2.3l quad-4 1990 ecm to a 7749 using a code59 bin from a turbo 4.3l v6 s10. First drive was ok but to rich. After a mile or so it wouldn't idle, just dies when pushing clutch in. After each start up It has a high idle for less than a minute then lowers a bit then slows a little more then just about the time u think it's gonna keep an idle it just dies like u turn off the key. I can make it rich or lean, adjust timing and play with iac steps but always dies at about the same time interval. I'm looking at all the time related idle settings but haven't changed the right one yet. I recorded a video of it I'll try to post. Can anyone point me in the right direction?Any help is always greatly appreciated !!!

  2. #2
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    Afterstart enrichment...
    Closed Loop Idle...
    O2 Sensors coming up to temp...

    It may not be the idle settings at all.

    Start with disabling closed loop idle, and work on your tuning from there. Get it to idle nicely open loop, THEN you can start tuning closed loop.

    Also...4.3L V6 tune on a 2.3L I4 engine isn't likely to be anywhere near close. I'm amazed it runs at all, let alone drives anywhere.
    Last edited by Xnke; 12-05-2016 at 10:48 PM.

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    Isn't there a conversion tool to convert $58 calibrations into $59? I have a $58 for 2.2 and DIS. Probably closer than the 4.3 settings.

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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Xnke View Post
    Start with disabling closed loop idle, and work on your tuning from there. Get it to idle nicely open loop, THEN you can start tuning closed loop.Also...4.3L V6 tune on a 2.3L I4 engine isn't likely to be anywhere near close. I'm amazed it runs at all, let alone drives anywhere.
    I was surprised it ran too!!! I spent some hours goin over the code59 .bin didn't c much to change in afr settings but ve was way up there!! I switched everything i could find that the instructions said - one project helped me with ignition wiring, can't figure out injector offset vs batt volt tho. I've probly got IAC steps all messed now but played with injector constant and ve last night timing too and got it to idle with some hunting and is able to recover after revving engine in neutral. After reading this reply :-) thanks. I had started it with closed loop shut off, and after first drive I took a lot of fuel out, got it a little too lean and added a tad back, I couldn't get to idle so thought maybe closed loop may help but no, VE is set at idle about 17.?? and don't think it's much over 30% on vacuum side but yea it drives but I did not say it ran worth a crap :-). 1project2many; I tried to find something closer so I searched here and found some older 4cyl bins and downloaded them plus $58, $58a and some others but couldn't seem to match xdf with .bin files......if you don't mind sharing that 2.2 that would b awesome!!!

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    Oh yea I'll search around for a conversion tool, I didn't know there was such a thing, that would b awesome too!!

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    You can't just arbitrarily assign values to the injector constant. You need to know what flow rate your injectors are, and put the correct constant in. After that you DO NOT change that constant. The injector voltage offsets are specific to the injectors in your engine-you need to look at the offset table for your injectors to find that. MPFI injectors are not the same as TBI injectors, and different brands/flow rates/design revisions of MPFI injectors all have different tables too.

    Next, you need to find your cylinder volume and the number of cylinders, make sure they're set properly, and DO NOT change them after they're set.

    Next you need a timing map FOR YOUR ENGINE. The 4.3L engine timing map is not gonna be close enough. Punch the timing map in and make sure the timing is set correctly.

    THEN you can start working the VE tables, I'd start with the idle VE table and get it to idle before I ever tried to leave the driveway in it. Then slow, controlled revs to figure out where the main VE table needed to go, then maybe a trip around the block.

    Just plonking in values to get it to run is a great way to blow up an engine, and even if you can get it to run without damage it will NEVER be correct-you'll be chasing your tail on one issue after another the whole time.
    Last edited by Xnke; 12-07-2016 at 10:51 PM.

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    lol I didn't plonk....sorry I left some stuff out. I swapped constant, timing table, idi ignition settings, tried injector offset vs batt volts but it only saves zeros when I set below a certain value so I guess I'm not translating something right like msec to usec or whatever???? I compared both my 1990 AMNP .bin quad-4 to the code59 .bin and changed all I could find except IAC steps (just thought of that) and read info on what people do to set up the $59 so I didn't bug you guys to much. Only reason I changed constant I set was I read a thread on the 59 forum where someone advised to raise the constant because the ve table ran out of room, to lean at 100% ve, changing the constant changes whole ve table one way or the other but I didn't change to far from 130 according to ANMP. I was wrong about idle ve %, it's actually 7.34% at idle and also wrong about getting it to idle, it was a fluke I guess. I'm going to try again in a little bit. I can't emulate for more than 3 seconds, emulator won't take the .bin file 80% of the time either so that's not helping!! I haven't been able to find wether the $59 bin is set for high z or low z injectors, if there's a setting for that. I have low z stock quad-4 injectors and no boost at the moment. I have high z injectors of varying rates none very big tho. I bought ecm off eBay so also trying to see if ecm is any good. I searched for a conversion tool but no results. I'm going to look at idle steps from stock bin in a bit and try again.......:-)

  8. #8
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    There are a few constants that seem to have minimum settings and below that they either default to the base minimum or zero, and never did get a straight answer as to why they did it that way.

    I'm not surprised that a 4.3 bin with some changes for the new engine would run. I've used some pretty far off bins for some engines and most of the time they would start and run decently, maybe not drivable or idle right away but start and run with some help. Engines are just air pumps they all do the same thing, the tunes just optimize the ratios of what the ECM is controlling to match the engine better.

    Some tables you won't want to copy over from other code, because $59 works differently. For the most part, those tables that default to zeros, either use the default $59 tables or tweak it to better match your engine but pulling values from other codes could be the wrong move.

    The injector constant does nothing in $59 (same for $58), use the BPW vs... oh I can't recall what it is off hand, EGR IIRC (?), but that changes the base pulse width. There is a calculated value for this based on engine size, injector size, etc, but I find that it usually ends up with a value that is too small, usually by more than half, so I usually start with the default table and adjust to get a solid idle at around stoich or just a bit richer, then move onto tuning the rest of the VE table.
    I have had to do what you read about, where I had to adjust that BPW table to get more headroom in the VE table, I was maxing it out with more injector left. It's not an exact way to do things, but fudging certain numbers is sometimes needed in these non stock type applications. Usually when I need to adjust the BPW, I then scale the entire VE table down a bit to get idle and driveability back where it was, then go back to the cells that were previously maxed out.
    The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.

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    it probably was your post six shooter, I read several with you in them trying to figure out how to get this thing switched and set up. Your right I forgot it's bpw vs egr I think but thought I read in parameter comments that was closest thing to ?? I thought it said constant but I wont claim to be right on anything I've written here!!!! :-) that's why I used the 130 in that table, 130 is what my current bin has for a constant. There's another bpw table, comment says keep at zero unless bpw is less than 3.9 I thought it said?? If I watch bpw in history table in $8b and it goes between 1.5 to 7.75 maybe, never seen 8 but that table does the default to zero thing too? Inj offset vs battery volt was msec to usec, looks close to what's in there now and it saved :-) tried it but didn't start it's cold tho!?? I got file all crazy I'm sure so going to start over and try to find out more on bpw and this zeros table......btw I left computer at shop or I would look at that comment - I was frustrated :-( I did get 2 logs about 3 blocks long each when It ran:-) Anyway if it's not stupid cold tomorrow I'll try and let you know. thanks guys :-)

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    Ok it started!!! And got it to idle with a hunt, didn't have much time to mess with it tho. I used wyosyclone bin to start, put my stuff in and left the ve table alone then had to pull whole table down some and up timing a little so at least it stays running now.......I hope!!! :-) here's those pids we were talking about. About the map sensors? I'm guessing stock replacement turbocharged Pontiac sunbird map sensor isn't going to work? Watched history and got more than 130 kpa driving 3 block no supercharger. Will a 1 bar map sensor work (with no boost) if I set the 1 bar or 3 bar map sensor option until I get a 3 bar or do u still need 3 bar sensor it just uses vacuum part? Thanks again!!!:-)

  11. #11
    Super Moderator Six_Shooter's Avatar
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    Good to hear it started, but until you get a proper MAP sensor you'll have issues, because the ECM will think that you have more load on the engine than you really do. This will add more fuel than it needs and timing will not be optimal (based on stock tables).

    No one that I know of has used a 1 BAR MAP with $59, even though the option settings are there, they've been carried over from $58. The $59 devs weren't sure if the 1 BAR setting would work, or at least how well it would work, since they concentrated mostly on the 3 BAR rescaling.

    I was going to try that on my T-Bucket, but I have since gone a different direction with the ECM in that vehicle.
    The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.

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    I tried 1 bar and only shows 0 kpa in history tables with both map sensors. Yea deff way off but found what is suppose to b a 3 bar from a 1989 firebird 3.8turbo, gonna check again, at oriellys up the street so gonna try again in the morning. :-)

  13. #13
    Super Moderator Six_Shooter's Avatar
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    You can source that 3 BAR MAP sensor from several aftermarket suppliers. IIRC the one I got was from Accel, which was/is a Delco (GM) MAP sensor. IIRC it was also cheaper to buy the ccel than MSD (same sensor) or from several other sources at the time.

    FYI diyautotune.com has the GM 3BAR MAP sensor for $64 plus the ride. I've bought several items from them over the years, just got an order in from them yesterday in fact. I know there are other online sources that have similar pricing now.

    What does the MAP ($3f) gauge/readout show when you plug in the 1 BAR MAP sensor and set the MAP flag to 1 BAR at key on engine off? That's more important than a histogram. The histogram likely needs to be set up anyway, they aren't by default IIRC.
    Last edited by Six_Shooter; 12-10-2016 at 06:39 PM.
    The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.

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    I seen the accel ur talkin about but this one $79 with shop discount at oriellys, bwd brand and it's here in town so any problems I got a quick remedy :-). We have been getting very poor quality stuff from everywhere, even acdelco and motorcraft r made in China now so didn't think I would b loosing anything by going with BWD. I tried the 1 bar option with both 1 bar sensor and stock sunbird map sensor, neither brought the zero KPA line, koeo still zero. Thought sensor quit but both work with 3 bar option. Koeo with sunbird sensor KPA is 81, idles at 61 and quick full throttle stab goes to 179 maybe-goes 2/3rds up knock retard history table. I didn't test that stuff with 1 bar but did see some 130 kpa cells filled first time I drove it. I have a couple logs I been meaning to watch, not sure if I checked the 1 bar or 3 bar option that time tho. Think I downloaded latest versions, adx is the .8 beta, if that tells u anything??? Will it say($3f)? The gauge in one of the dashes right? Using latest tpv5 pretty sure latest anyway. I'm headed to get that sensor and try it so I'll try what u said with 1 bar. Check history against 3f? If u want me to try anything with map option or 1 bar stuff let me know and I'll get back on later and post what happens :-). Oh yea I'm probly not going to know what to set up in histogram. I had to put history tables in an 8B ads I was using, just like make the cart and label colonms and rows. Anything like that.....I'm a novice !!

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    Ok 3 bar works. Idles at 31 koeo 101, got afrs stuck at 11.7-12.8 idling. F29x is what I'm changing and only seems to effect pw, it was 1.5 avg now is .5 avg. I read ur post about tuning injector offset because u were taking big steps in a table and it wasn't effecting anything, going to try that if I can get back to it tonight unless there's another suggestion....dang forgot to look at dash but logged. What about IAC steps, should they b changed at all? Thanks :-)!!

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