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Thread: SBC TPI 0411 24X conversioin

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    Fuel Injected! Mikey G's Avatar
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    SBC TPI 0411 24X conversion

    Hello All,I built a 500hp 383 SBC and put it in a project. in the beginning, it was carburated for simplicity so I could have concentrated on debugging the car. Later I cleaned up the TPI set-up, modified it, replaced all the sensors (map,iac,tps & iac), and installed it. I knew there would be a drop in hp but loved the look of the TPI. I went with the 7730 SD set-up. With the exception of the idle quality, the balance of the tune is pretty good. I have yet to get the cold start-up and idle from being quite rich. I have checked for vacuum leaks. I changed the rotor, cap, wires and plugs. Changed the injectors, had them flow checked and matched. Did a compression and leakdown test. I believe I'm asking too much from the 7730 SD set-up with this cam 242/248 @.050". I have been thinking of doing the 0411 24x conversion. Has anyone had good success with a similar application?Mikey G
    Last edited by Mikey G; 12-26-2016 at 03:32 PM.

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    It should be easy to do as long as you can come up with a crank sensor. Just use the distributor from a '96 and up Vortec engine. The 0411 was used on the Vortec 350 engines in the later vans, so you can grab a base tune from one of them to start with.
    1973 K-5 Blazer, TBI 350, TH400, 1 ton axles & 38" SSRs'
    1975 280Z, TBI 350, 700R4
    1953 M-38A1, TBI Buick 231
    1951 Ford Panel, 5.3 with 4L80E

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    Fuel Injected! Mikey G's Avatar
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    I was actually going to go further and use the LS1 set-up with the Coil On Cyl. I have all the hardware. I have completed my harness as well. I was wondering if someone has had success with dialling in a cold start-up and idle with a "big" cam prior to purchasing all the software (?)

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    You'd probably be better off getting your preferred tuning suite first (or getting someone else to flash a starter tune on it). You won't even be able to start a 0411 setup until you've went in and disabled VATS.
    1973 K-5 Blazer, TBI 350, TH400, 1 ton axles & 38" SSRs'
    1975 280Z, TBI 350, 700R4
    1953 M-38A1, TBI Buick 231
    1951 Ford Panel, 5.3 with 4L80E

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    Cold start is one of the toughest things to get right. You absolutely need to make sure the voltage corrections are correct for your injectors. During cranking the system voltage drops and after startup system voltage is higher while the battery recharges. If you have a WBO2 it may be possible to start it and warm it enough to get readings during cranking and startup. It's extremely helpful. It's important to separate cranking from cold running after startup. Fuel delivery during cranking can over-fuel the engine which can cause slightly rich operation after startup to seem overly rich. I like to find a rich and lean "stop" for cranking then work from the area in the middle letting the engine tell me what it likes. Remember to try and be roughly consistent with the starting temp. Without some way to monitor what's happening (I've used an ignition scope to watch firing voltage change, and I've tried a quartz filled spark plug to provide a "window" into the chamber ) it really takes something akin to Zen to devine where to start making changes. If it starts ok hot try starting at cooler and cooler temps to see how it goes. And be patient because you may only get one or two chances in a day to try again.

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    Fuel Injected! Mikey G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastacton View Post
    You'd probably be better off getting your preferred tuning suite first (or getting someone else to flash a starter tune on it). You won't even be able to start a 0411 setup until you've went in and disabled VATS.
    I had intensions on getting my 0411 re-flashed with the F body (cable drive), and also having the VATS disabled prior to a start-up

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    Fuel Injected! Mikey G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post
    Cold start is one of the toughest things to get right. You absolutely need to make sure the voltage corrections are correct for your injectors. During cranking the system voltage drops and after startup system voltage is higher while the battery recharges. If you have a WBO2 it may be possible to start it and warm it enough to get readings during cranking and startup. It's extremely helpful. It's important to separate cranking from cold running after startup. Fuel delivery during cranking can over-fuel the engine which can cause slightly rich operation after startup to seem overly rich. I like to find a rich and lean "stop" for cranking then work from the area in the middle letting the engine tell me what it likes. Remember to try and be roughly consistent with the starting temp. Without some way to monitor what's happening (I've used an ignition scope to watch firing voltage change, and I've tried a quartz filled spark plug to provide a "window" into the chamber ) it really takes something akin to Zen to devine where to start making changes. If it starts ok hot try starting at cooler and cooler temps to see how it goes. And be patient because you may only get one or two chances in a day to try again.
    I don't currently have a WB02, but is on my list of things to do during the swap over to the 0411. I will certainly keep an eye on the cranking voltage drop. I was considering getting a local tuner in olved with the tune after start up. He is very well know around here and his speciality is 0411 set-ups in many applications. Many LS conversions some around the 600 RWHP range. He said he will have no problems tuning my set-up. But he might be talking through his hat just to get the work. I was hoping to get some sort of confirmation the 0411 is capable - in the right hands.

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    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    My daily driver 1999 S-10 has a Bone Stock L31 Vortec 5.7 liter with 24x. See attached pic.

    For a starter flash, I modified a 2002 5.3 Liter flash.

    dave w

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    Fuel Injected! Mikey G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave w View Post
    My daily driver 1999 S-10 has a Bone Stock L31 Vortec 5.7 liter with 24x. See attached pic.

    For a starter flash, I modified a 2002 5.3 Liter flash.

    dave w
    Very nice install dave w. Looks factory installed. Being bone stock, I'm sure dialing in your tune was not so difficult. I don't think I will have it that easy.

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    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey G View Post
    Very nice install dave w. Looks factory installed.
    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey G View Post
    Being bone stock, I'm sure dialing in your tune was not so difficult.
    I was on a steep learning curve. Tuning a stock engine was still a challenge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey G View Post
    I don't think I will have it that easy.
    That kind of thinking is 100% correct!

    See attached screen shot of 0411 injector parameters. I copied / pasted the L31 5.7 liter injector parameters from a stock tune. It will be very challenging to find aftermarket injector parameters that will copy / paste into the '0411 parameters.

    Maybe the option of factory 8.1 Liter injectors (about 30 lb) are an option?

    dave w

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    Fuel Injected! Mikey G's Avatar
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    Happy Holidays All. - Just a small update to my 24x conversion. I stripped out the OBDI harness and installed the OBDII (0411) today. The front of the engine has been stripped down to add in the 24x crank reluctor. The coil packs are mounted and SP wires are done. Here are some links to photos. Hope you like.Cheershttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tu...V=w802-h602-nohttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/mu...1=w802-h602-nohttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/mn...K=w802-h602-nohttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/NN...m=w802-h602-no
    Last edited by Mikey G; 12-26-2016 at 05:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dave w View Post
    My daily driver 1999 S-10 has a Bone Stock L31 Vortec 5.7 liter with 24x. See attached pic.For a starter flash, I modified a 2002 5.3 Liter flash.dave w
    I have a modified 8.1 flash in my Express van.It is DBW, 24x on a Marine intake on a L31 with worked 906 heads and a Marine '395 cam with 1.7 rockers.

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    Fuel Injected! Mikey G's Avatar
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    Hi Fast355 Your Marine 395 cam has somewhat similar duration to my cam. I had to remove my intake manifold to swap out the HEI over to the L31 distributor to provide the CPS. the intake ports were heavily stained with fuel/carbon deposits al the way up to the TPI runners. I thought this to be excessive. This past summer, the engine had done a lot of idle tweaking with the OBDI set up. I understand big cammed engines have no business sitting at idle for extended periods of time. I do have a few questions regarding your set-up. - What vehicle is this engine in ? -or going in? - What RPM did you get the idle to settle at? - What have you done to the idle tables to compensate for the false lean condition the O2 sensors would read at idle ? - Are you running open or closed loop when idling? - Does the sequential injection and COP offer any help with a high overlapped cam at idle ? If there are any others who have comments to offer - please do. Thanks in advance. Cheers. Mikey G

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey G View Post
    Hi Fast355 Your Marine 395 cam has somewhat similar duration to my cam. I had to remove my intake manifold to swap out the HEI over to the L31 distributor to provide the CPS. the intake ports were heavily stained with fuel/carbon deposits al the way up to the TPI runners. I thought this to be excessive. This past summer, the engine had done a lot of idle tweaking with the OBDI set up. I understand big cammed engines have no business sitting at idle for extended periods of time. I do have a few questions regarding your set-up. - What vehicle is this engine in ? -or going in? - What RPM did you get the idle to settle at? - What have you done to the idle tables to compensate for the false lean condition the O2 sensors would read at idle ? - Are you running open or closed loop when idling? - Does the sequential injection and COP offer any help with a high overlapped cam at idle ? If there are any others who have comments to offer - please do. Thanks in advance. Cheers. Mikey G
    It is in a 1997 G1500 Express van.Idle is set at 700 rpm. I only idle it that high because of the 25% underdrive pulleys. Very few changes to the 02 sensor tables. I did have to make some minor changes to the proportional gains due to the long tube tri-y headers. It actually runs slightly lean when you monitor it with a wideband. The plugs stay clean and with the COP running stock .060" plug gaps I have tun it as lean as 17:1 without misfire.Closed loop at idle (I am in closed loop in about 45 seconds)Sequential injection does help because you can set end of injection timing to correspond with cam timing.My cam is relatively small and has no problem idling for long periods of time. I let it idle for about 4 hours straight last winter on a roadtrip to Ohio. Got into a storm and it was crazy cold, pulled off for a few hours and slept a while.

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    Fuel Injected! Mikey G's Avatar
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    Hi Fast355,

    Thanks for your responses - well appreciated.

    What changes - if any, would you consider if you were using aluminum heads ? like AFR Street 65cc 195s....
    Is your WBO2 wired to your PCM ?

    I should have the engine/wiring all buttoned up this weekend. I'm not qualified (yet) to do the tuning myself so, I have made arrangements with a local, very well known tuner to remove the VATS and flash in another program. I'm hoping to start the car up and drive over to his shop where he will proceed with the fine tuning on his chassis dyno. This will also include some road tuning time as well. Would you be able to offer any advise for the initial tune so I could expect a start up and limp to his shop?

    Thanks in advance

    Mikey G

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