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  1. #1
    Fuel Injected! Mikey G's Avatar
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    SBC TPI 0411 24X conversion

    Hello All,I built a 500hp 383 SBC and put it in a project. in the beginning, it was carburated for simplicity so I could have concentrated on debugging the car. Later I cleaned up the TPI set-up, modified it, replaced all the sensors (map,iac,tps & iac), and installed it. I knew there would be a drop in hp but loved the look of the TPI. I went with the 7730 SD set-up. With the exception of the idle quality, the balance of the tune is pretty good. I have yet to get the cold start-up and idle from being quite rich. I have checked for vacuum leaks. I changed the rotor, cap, wires and plugs. Changed the injectors, had them flow checked and matched. Did a compression and leakdown test. I believe I'm asking too much from the 7730 SD set-up with this cam 242/248 @.050". I have been thinking of doing the 0411 24x conversion. Has anyone had good success with a similar application?Mikey G
    Last edited by Mikey G; 12-27-2016 at 01:32 AM.

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    It should be easy to do as long as you can come up with a crank sensor. Just use the distributor from a '96 and up Vortec engine. The 0411 was used on the Vortec 350 engines in the later vans, so you can grab a base tune from one of them to start with.
    1973 K-5 Blazer, TBI 350, TH400, 1 ton axles & 38" SSRs'
    1975 280Z, TBI 350, 700R4
    1953 M-38A1, TBI Buick 231
    1951 Ford Panel, 5.3 with 4L80E

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    Fuel Injected! Mikey G's Avatar
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    I was actually going to go further and use the LS1 set-up with the Coil On Cyl. I have all the hardware. I have completed my harness as well. I was wondering if someone has had success with dialling in a cold start-up and idle with a "big" cam prior to purchasing all the software (?)

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    You'd probably be better off getting your preferred tuning suite first (or getting someone else to flash a starter tune on it). You won't even be able to start a 0411 setup until you've went in and disabled VATS.
    1973 K-5 Blazer, TBI 350, TH400, 1 ton axles & 38" SSRs'
    1975 280Z, TBI 350, 700R4
    1953 M-38A1, TBI Buick 231
    1951 Ford Panel, 5.3 with 4L80E

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    Cold start is one of the toughest things to get right. You absolutely need to make sure the voltage corrections are correct for your injectors. During cranking the system voltage drops and after startup system voltage is higher while the battery recharges. If you have a WBO2 it may be possible to start it and warm it enough to get readings during cranking and startup. It's extremely helpful. It's important to separate cranking from cold running after startup. Fuel delivery during cranking can over-fuel the engine which can cause slightly rich operation after startup to seem overly rich. I like to find a rich and lean "stop" for cranking then work from the area in the middle letting the engine tell me what it likes. Remember to try and be roughly consistent with the starting temp. Without some way to monitor what's happening (I've used an ignition scope to watch firing voltage change, and I've tried a quartz filled spark plug to provide a "window" into the chamber ) it really takes something akin to Zen to devine where to start making changes. If it starts ok hot try starting at cooler and cooler temps to see how it goes. And be patient because you may only get one or two chances in a day to try again.

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    Fuel Injected! Mikey G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post
    Cold start is one of the toughest things to get right. You absolutely need to make sure the voltage corrections are correct for your injectors. During cranking the system voltage drops and after startup system voltage is higher while the battery recharges. If you have a WBO2 it may be possible to start it and warm it enough to get readings during cranking and startup. It's extremely helpful. It's important to separate cranking from cold running after startup. Fuel delivery during cranking can over-fuel the engine which can cause slightly rich operation after startup to seem overly rich. I like to find a rich and lean "stop" for cranking then work from the area in the middle letting the engine tell me what it likes. Remember to try and be roughly consistent with the starting temp. Without some way to monitor what's happening (I've used an ignition scope to watch firing voltage change, and I've tried a quartz filled spark plug to provide a "window" into the chamber ) it really takes something akin to Zen to devine where to start making changes. If it starts ok hot try starting at cooler and cooler temps to see how it goes. And be patient because you may only get one or two chances in a day to try again.
    I don't currently have a WB02, but is on my list of things to do during the swap over to the 0411. I will certainly keep an eye on the cranking voltage drop. I was considering getting a local tuner in olved with the tune after start up. He is very well know around here and his speciality is 0411 set-ups in many applications. Many LS conversions some around the 600 RWHP range. He said he will have no problems tuning my set-up. But he might be talking through his hat just to get the work. I was hoping to get some sort of confirmation the 0411 is capable - in the right hands.

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    Fuel Injected! Mikey G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastacton View Post
    You'd probably be better off getting your preferred tuning suite first (or getting someone else to flash a starter tune on it). You won't even be able to start a 0411 setup until you've went in and disabled VATS.
    I had intensions on getting my 0411 re-flashed with the F body (cable drive), and also having the VATS disabled prior to a start-up

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    Check the injectors are wired correct you have to shift them to the right cylinders to match the firing order it can't be changed in the tune have to physically shift them or they run a little off and do funny stuff.if you just dropped an ls harness on as it was some will be wrong

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    See attached schematic I found on the internet and used in my build.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Fuel Injected! Mikey G's Avatar
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    There are injectors and coil connections to swap out when going from LS to SBC
    I have build three stand alone harnesses for others with no issues
    Let me know

    Mikey G

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    Fuel Injected! Mikey G's Avatar
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    Need to swap out injectors 2&3 and 4&7
    also need to swap injectors 2&3 and 4&7
    That being said, motor will not fire up if this was not done. I'm sure this is not your issue for the erratic vacuum.
    Mikey G

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    Mike G, Do you have a tune file you can share? i would use it start as a base tune for mine. Or the contact info of the place u had yours tuned at? Thanks

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    And have to change bank assignments in tune so the O2s read the correct cylinders for missfire detection etc hard for the ecu to swing o2s if the banks are messed up

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    Quote Originally Posted by delcowizzid View Post
    And have to change bank assignments in tune so the O2s read the correct cylinders for missfire detection etc hard for the ecu to swing o2s if the banks are messed up
    Hey guys,

    Thanks for the tips, it's appreciated.

    I've been through the harness about 4 times now and checked every single pin from PCM to the other end to make sure it's all correct. I found the issue with the vortec dizzy pins being different to the Cam position sensor in LS motors and fixed that also, so I know all the wiring is correct.

    Bank assignments have been set correctly in the tune as well.

    As you mentioned about vacuum lines, I also found one of the pipes on the throttle body that i think is usually a heater hose line was actually a vacuum hole, so I plugged that and fixed that.
    I've used carby cleaner to check for vacuum leaks around the front and back of the block where the intake sites, as well as the sides and the plenum (sorry, forgot to mention its a Holley Stealth Ram intake).

    Basically the car runs rough at idle which i still think is a fouled plug, then when it warms up its ok - All this is at idle.
    When driving, the car will go when I open the throttle, but when the transmission shifts, the car bogs right down, backfires, and bucks like crazy, for almost exactly 3 seconds, then I can put the foot down again and get going, but only at cruise throttle.

    The motor is a 400SBC, stock bottom end, stock pistons, but XR270HR cam, AFR 195 eliminator heads, heavily ported to around 220cc, and 64/68cc chambers, can't remember at the moment.
    The holley stealth ram intake has an arizona marine 58mm twin throttle body, 28lb/hr ls1 injectors, with the vortec dizzy and timing cover to give the 0411PCM the signals it needs.
    Running MAFless tune with 12202088 type OS, custom 0129003

    Once HP tuners arrives I can use their RTT OS and set the timing to a specific value to see if the rough idle gets better or if vacuum improves from there, as well as recheck the A/F Ratio to see if that's what's sooting up the plugs

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    Is it the non adjustable dizzy that doesn't turn to adjust my mates bigblock was 1 tooth out on the rotor phasing and it did similar he also had the injectors out of order

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