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Thread: SBC TPI 0411 24X conversioin

  1. #16
    Fuel Injected! Mikey G's Avatar
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    Hello All,
    Small update. I finished buttoning things up last night. After fixing a pin out issue on the crank sensor it fired up immediately and idled quite well. as soon as the snow dissipates some more, I will go for a road test. IMG_5162[1].jpgIMG_5161[1].jpg

  2. #17
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    Thanks for the update.

    dave w

  3. #18
    Fuel Injected! Mikey G's Avatar
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqdPT1PGZUI

    Hello Everyone.

    Start-up done went well dyno day was Monday. RWHP was 330hp and RWT was 392ft/lbs

    If the link did load

    see Youtube - V8 RWD Z24 Dyno Day https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqdPT1PGZUI

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey G View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqdPT1PGZUI

    Hello Everyone.

    Start-up done went well dyno day was Monday. RWHP was 330hp and RWT was 392ft/lbs

    If the link did load

    see Youtube - V8 RWD Z24 Dyno Day https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqdPT1PGZUI
    Did you post the BIN file here?

  5. #20
    Fuel Injected! Mikey G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilstuie View Post
    Did you post the BIN file here?
    No I didn't.

    Purchasing the software and credits was more expensive than having it tuned at my local shop. He had it done in 3 pulls I would still be fiddling with it today... They did load it up in a spare 0411 so I have somewhat of a back-up. There is a wiring issue and only one O2 sensor working. The tuner (BOB), did his best to tune around it for now - idles very low (450rpm) when cold. Fine when warmed up. I had to put the car in storage soon after to take care of moving and some massive renos at the new place. I'm to trouble shoot this wiring issue this winter and return for the balance of the tune in the spring. I hope to leave with a copy of the BIN File.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey G View Post
    No I didn't.

    Purchasing the software and credits was more expensive than having it tuned at my local shop. He had it done in 3 pulls I would still be fiddling with it today... They did load it up in a spare 0411 so I have somewhat of a back-up. There is a wiring issue and only one O2 sensor working. The tuner (BOB), did his best to tune around it for now - idles very low (450rpm) when cold. Fine when warmed up. I had to put the car in storage soon after to take care of moving and some massive renos at the new place. I'm to trouble shoot this wiring issue this winter and return for the balance of the tune in the spring. I hope to leave with a copy of the BIN File.
    Oh ok.
    I've got a similar issue with mine I think. Left bank O2 sensor goes up and down as it should, the right bank only moves from 0.445 to 0.455, but both fuel trims are working. Let me know if you find a solution to yours. :)

  7. #22
    Fuel Injected! Mikey G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilstuie View Post
    Oh ok.
    I've got a similar issue with mine I think. Left bank O2 sensor goes up and down as it should, the right bank only moves from 0.445 to 0.455, but both fuel trims are working. Let me know if you find a solution to yours. :)
    Interesting. My issue is with the right bank. We swapped the O2 sensors for other known working units and also the wiring from right to left to bank to confirm it was the wiring. We tested the right bank wiring for the usual Gnd, 12v+, signal to the ECM. All were checking our good (???) However, like you, only moving from 0.445 to 0.455 ish.... I wonder if there is something with the ECM..

    I will definitely post my findings... Thanks evilstuie :)

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey G View Post
    Interesting. My issue is with the right bank. We swapped the O2 sensors for other known working units and also the wiring from right to left to bank to confirm it was the wiring. We tested the right bank wiring for the usual Gnd, 12v+, signal to the ECM. All were checking our good (???) However, like you, only moving from 0.445 to 0.455 ish.... I wonder if there is something with the ECM..

    I will definitely post my findings... Thanks evilstuie :)
    So what do you think in the end? Was the cost and effort worth it? How's the experience over a carb? I have a TPI setup sitting on my shelf.

  9. #24
    Fuel Injected! Mikey G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notime2d8 View Post
    So what do you think in the end? Was the cost and effort worth it? How's the experience over a carb? I have a TPI setup sitting on my shelf.
    When I got started with this project, I put a carb on for simplicity as I knew there would be much troubleshooting elsewhere in the car. I really liked the TPI I had sitting on the shelf as well. I was convinced the OBDI would work and the idle quality would be acceptable. OBDI (SD),did not have the options to contend with the overlap on my cam. Idle quality was bad - always rich. I had three different people try different things. More research led me to want the OBDII - LS conversion. The local tuner also guaranteed me he could make it purr. I did what I could and got the what I needed from EFI Conversions. The cost was still around 1,200 all said and done + $700 for the dyno tune.

    The TPI set-up will make somewhat less HP but is a great torquer - especially at low to medium speeds. Much will depend on how hot is your cam. The OBDI has its limits. So does the TPI. I maxed the porting the plenum and the base manifold, Port matched all connections. and put on a 58mm TB. Power started to drop at 5800.

    All in all I think the TPI is a way better looking than a carb or a TB set up. I had a tone of fun with the research and install of both the OBDI and OBDII. I would go straight for the 24X conversion. There will always be options for future add ons. My car was running so I accumulated the parts slowly. The hit was not so severe. More than happy to share any information I have

    Hope this helps

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey G View Post
    Interesting. My issue is with the right bank. We swapped the O2 sensors for other known working units and also the wiring from right to left to bank to confirm it was the wiring. We tested the right bank wiring for the usual Gnd, 12v+, signal to the ECM. All were checking our good (???) However, like you, only moving from 0.445 to 0.455 ish.... I wonder if there is something with the ECM..

    I will definitely post my findings... Thanks evilstuie :)

    Yeah mine is exactly the same. I just bought brand new O2 sensors and installed them and it was still the same.
    I'm using a 12202088 OS which LRT supplied the XDFs and some assistance with. I'm not sure if there's anything in the OS itself that could cause it.
    But I've checked the ScanXL and TunerPro logs and both report it the same, but strangely enough the Left and Right Bank short term fuel trims oscillate up and down as they should, so they seem to be reacting to the O2 sensors, they just don't seem to register.

    I'm still a bit confused by the tuning process because my car smells like its running really rich, and its using a lot of fuel, but the logs from TunerPro and ScanXL are showing my ST fuel trim around -16 in some areas which I'm lead to believe means its actually adding 16% more fuel.

    Spark tables are also confusing because it seems the PCM chooses the timing anyway, and my knock sensors aren't detecting any knock.

    I don't want to take it to the dyno and drop a grand before I know everything is working as it should.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey G View Post
    When I got started with this project, I put a carb on for simplicity as I knew there would be much troubleshooting elsewhere in the car. I really liked the TPI I had sitting on the shelf as well. I was convinced the OBDI would work and the idle quality would be acceptable. OBDI (SD),did not have the options to contend with the overlap on my cam. Idle quality was bad - always rich. I had three different people try different things. More research led me to want the OBDII - LS conversion. The local tuner also guaranteed me he could make it purr. I did what I could and got the what I needed from EFI Conversions. The cost was still around 1,200 all said and done + $700 for the dyno tune.

    The TPI set-up will make somewhat less HP but is a great torquer - especially at low to medium speeds. Much will depend on how hot is your cam. The OBDI has its limits. So does the TPI. I maxed the porting the plenum and the base manifold, Port matched all connections. and put on a 58mm TB. Power started to drop at 5800.

    All in all I think the TPI is a way better looking than a carb or a TB set up. I had a tone of fun with the research and install of both the OBDI and OBDII. I would go straight for the 24X conversion. There will always be options for future add ons. My car was running so I accumulated the parts slowly. The hit was not so severe. More than happy to share any information I have

    Hope this helps
    I am in the middle of setting up a TPI 383 controlled by a 2006 LS 6.0L PCM in my 1997 Express van.

    Will be a 11:1 6" rod 383 with Edelbrock Etec170s, Edelbrock Vortec TPI base that has been ported, Siamese ported SLP runners, ported factory TPI plenum, LT1 throttle body, Doug Thorley tri-y headers, 2.5" dual exhaust into a dual in/single out muffler with electric cutouts. Finally I am using the Lunati Bootlegger 224/236 @ .050 cut on a 108* LSA and it will run on E85 with a flex fuel sensor. The ignition system is EFI Connection 24x with Delco D585 coils.

    Timing table is not hard on these setups. Provided there is NO knock activity it will run on the high octane map.

  12. #27
    Fuel Injected! Mikey G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilstuie View Post
    Yeah mine is exactly the same. I just bought brand new O2 sensors and installed them and it was still the same.
    I'm using a 12202088 OS which LRT supplied the XDFs and some assistance with. I'm not sure if there's anything in the OS itself that could cause it.
    But I've checked the ScanXL and TunerPro logs and both report it the same, but strangely enough the Left and Right Bank short term fuel trims oscillate up and down as they should, so they seem to be reacting to the O2 sensors, they just don't seem to register.

    I'm still a bit confused by the tuning process because my car smells like its running really rich, and its using a lot of fuel, but the logs from TunerPro and ScanXL are showing my ST fuel trim around -16 in some areas which I'm lead to believe means its actually adding 16% more fuel.

    Spark tables are also confusing because it seems the PCM chooses the timing anyway, and my knock sensors aren't detecting any knock.

    I don't want to take it to the dyno and drop a grand before I know everything is working as it should.
    I understand completely. Can you communicate your issues to the tune shop? If they have the ability to actually tune your application, they can confirm there is a hardware issue of just a software programming (tuning), issue. My tuning experience started with the tuner looking over my wiring schematic, collecting all specs of my engine, removed the VATS from my 0411 and loading up his custom base program so I can start up and drive to his shop. (He took a the popular 2000' Van program and spent 30 min tweaking it) He intentionally made the idle and part throttle a little rich to assure there wouldn't be any lean conditions. I brought spare sensors including Os sensors. During the tuning process, he let me change O2 sensors and swap out the bank wiring to try to troubleshoot my issue while he went to serve other customers. My experience was awesome to say the least. Based on other horror stories, I consider myself lucky. I'm thinking of contacting him regarding this similiar O2 sensor readings you guys are having to pick his brain...
    Keep you posted.....

  13. #28
    Fuel Injected! Mikey G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast355 View Post
    I am in the middle of setting up a TPI 383 controlled by a 2006 LS 6.0L PCM in my 1997 Express van.

    Will be a 11:1 6" rod 383 with Edelbrock Etec170s, Edelbrock Vortec TPI base that has been ported, Siamese ported SLP runners, ported factory TPI plenum, LT1 throttle body, Doug Thorley tri-y headers, 2.5" dual exhaust into a dual in/single out muffler with electric cutouts. Finally I am using the Lunati Bootlegger 224/236 @ .050 cut on a 108* LSA and it will run on E85 with a flex fuel sensor. The ignition system is EFI Connection 24x with Delco D585 coils.

    Timing table is not hard on these setups. Provided there is NO knock activity it will run on the high octane map.
    You set up is quite similar to mine. I have 10.5 with 6'' rods. I chose the AFR 195cc. CC Xtreme EFI 280 -m 230/236 with 109. 1-5/8'' shorty headers with 2.5'' dual cats, mufflers and Morose racing mufflers at the back as resonators. My car is quiet and no drone. I think you are correct with the ease to tune in general. He completed the WOT in 3 pulls. I think this is an awesome combo. Gobs of torque at low and mid range. Perfect for a daily driver - but with sharp teeth.
    The coil -on-plug with sequential injection makes the cam seem much less choppy at idle and throttle response is definitely improved over the OBDI or the carb. Many people have a hard time figuring out just what I have under the hood... (Cool).
    My tuner also mentioned if I was to switch to wheel bearings with the ABS sensors, he could program the tune to back off when there is wheel spin detected. Great for when one gets stuck in the rain. Just need to be able to turn it off when wanting to fish tail or engaging the line-Lock and doing a smoke show...

  14. #29
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    Hey Mikey,
    My problem is that I'm in Australia, we had one maybe 2 cars that have a Chev Small Block in them (HT I think) and they were back in the 70s with a carb. Everything they tune here is a LSx and there might be maybe a handful at the absolute most of other people here in Australia that have done a 24x conversion.
    All the shops I've talked to about tuning it don't have a clue what I'm talking about when I explain the setup, which doesn't instil much confidence.
    My main concern is without them knowing about the 24x conversion and just trying to tune the tables like they would for an LS1, they'll
    1) Not be able to do it
    2) Spend a lot of hours ($$$) trying to tune it
    3) Damage the motor
    4) Hand it back to me no better and with a 1K+ bill.

    If tuning is as simple as doing a run on the dyno, taking the readings and adjusting spark and fuel until the maximum power is obtained, and then extrapolating the values measured into the areas of the map that weren't measured using smoothing or calculations, then it will be fine I guess, so long as he uses the base tune LRT has configured for me, and doesn't start from scratch with a base tune and miss out things like bank assignments etc.

    If it requires knowledge and understanding of the differences in the SBC spark requirements and timing then it may be problematic.

    There's also the risk of "tuners" just using a library of LS1 motor tunes that they charge an arm and a leg to flash a generic tune which won't come anywhere near what mine needs.

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