Cross Fire tuners please help

[uncabob]

Newby tuner with 84 Vette XFI l83 engine (was 205 HP) against a th400. Original block and heads.
Using 5235206(61pph) injectors plumbed in parallel with external FPR and original TBs.
Old FPR and accumulator blocked with plates.
New cam is supposed to be a little hotter (asked for RV cam).
No EGR or CATs yet but expect to add later.
Cast iron exhaust manifold with 2.5 in. collector reducing to 2.25 in. pipes with X style x-over
Using tunerproRT v5 and 27FS512 chips and AKAH starting bin.

Need to know where to start timing. Have to advance over 45 deg just to get it to start.
Can,t keep it running long enough to get a timing light on it.
Runs way too rich, really rough and won't stay running.
How do you disable CL?
What BPW should I start with? Was 135 but set at 118 at present. FP is down to 9psi and still too rich.

Any XFI tuners want to jump in?

[Six_Shooter]

So you have a '7747 ECM installed?

Are you using the adapter that was sold for this swap way back when? Or did you splice into the original harness for the new connectors?

What do you have base fuel pressure set to?

To disable closed loop (which won't be a factor until the engine is almost fully warmed up) you set the closed loop enable temp to maximum (255 degrees).

I moved this to the GM tuning forum since it's more of a tuning question than a Tuner Pro question.

[uncabob]

[QUOTE=Six_Shooter;61523]
So you have a '7747 ECM installed?
using the adapter
What do you have base fuel pressure set to?
Yes the '7747
Using the Moates adapter. (G2?) and Autoprom APU1 with 27fs512 chip.
BPW is set at 118. Tried 128 suggested by 1project2many but still had a lot of smoke out of the exhaust.
Somewhere I saw 118 suggested and am trying that. Think it was DaveW for something he was writing about.
Engine and trans are setting in the frame but no cab, bed or fenders. Can't make any logs yet because I haven't been able
to get my laptop working with tunerprort yet.

Thanks for the quick reply.
Bob

[Six_Shooter]

Oh so this engine is not in a Corvette or F-body? So you made your own harness? The adapter I was asking about converts from the edge card style connector to the '7747 harness that was avaible years ago, not sure it still is.

When you say that you "can't get Tuner Pro to work with your laptop yet" do you mean that you have not been able to get the program loaded or that you haven't been able to connect to the diagnostic datastream (ALDL) yet?

What is the CEL doing when you turn the key on? Does it flash once, then turn on solid until you start, does it just turn on solid, or does it flash rapidly?

What was the original application of the '7747 that you are using?

[Six_Shooter]

This is the adapter I am asking about: It's called a "HAM board" Found here: http://www.crossfireinjection.net/catalog.htm



If you're not using the original crossfire harness though then it doesn't matter.

Basically my line of questioning is trying to find all of the details of what you're using. When I, and I'm sure most other people, hear "Crossfire" they assume that it will still be in a Corvette or F-body. If that's not the case or things have been changed from original, like the ECM swap, we need to know about this and how it was done.

[uncabob]

Guess I didn't answer your harness question. It was a S&P harness set up for me with the computer and chip as a 1988 chevy truck. I have since
made some changes in the wiring to use a VSS and a CS10D alternator and fuse and relay panel out of an S10.

[Six_Shooter]

I am not familar with their harness, but it was set up for the Crossfire specifically?

What about the behavior of the CEL? That is a basic function and can tell a lot about what may be going on when an engine conversion doesn't want to start.

Also the original application of the ECM would help too, since if the NETRES is not correct that can cause impossible issues to overcome where engine running smooth is concerned.

[uncabob]

Its an old Compaq laptop with XP and I want to bring it up to date. Have an older version of tunerpro on it.
Doing my flashing on a desktop away from the project. Going back and forth with the '7747 to flash the chip is a bit of a hassle.

The CEL does as you say. It flashes once then stays on until starting.
Thanks again.

The harness was specifically made for the Crossfire. Also forgot to mention that I had the engine running with a
fair idle about a year ago. Since then I replaced the fuel lines because I wasn't comfortable with rubber lines.

[Six_Shooter]

Well, to globally reduce fuel you would reduce the BPW (IIRC that's the parameter used in $42). I have found though that low BPWs can cause running issues, unsteady idle, hard to start, etc. IIRC this usually happened around 90 or so for the BPW. You might want to try to reduce the VE table in around where it idles/should be idling in order to reduce fuel instead of playing with BPW. The higher map areas, where starting would also effect might be ok. What is your fuel pressure set at? Vacuum referenced FPR or no? What is the reason behind parallel feeding the throttle bodies?

[Xnke]

Ok-So you say you had it running a year ago.

What have you changed between the running configuration and now?

[uncabob]

Just tried running with 118 bpw and it ran, but pretty rough. FP was 9psi and I ran it up to 11psi and it smoothed out some.
That would seem to agree with your BPW statement.
I'll try resetting BPW to 128 as 1project suggested. \
Can I use my APU1 to change my ve tables?
FPR has a vacuum port but its open to atmosphere.
I converted to parallel to be able to make changes without a fight. Also the original injectors had different flow ratings.

[uncabob]

Ok-So you say you had it running a year ago.

What have you changed between the running configuration and now?

Wondered if anyone was going to ask. Replaced the fuel lines because I could not get a leak to stop. Rubber tube with barb fittings.

Replaced the plugs. They were Autolite 26 plugs and heavily blackened. Put in AC Delco R45TS at .045.

I am thinking the fuel may be too old. Its been setting with the tank exposed to the sun for several months.

Any thoughts?

[Six_Shooter]

Are you asking if you can use the APU1 to emulate? You can. If that's not what you're asking then you will need to clarify the question.

I also don't know what you mean by being able to make changes without a fight? What changes would make parallel fuel routing easier than series?

In TBI the FPR should not be vacuum referenced (except in some extreme cases), so that's good. I'd set for 11 to 13 PSIG and tune from there. The higher pressure will help with fuel atomization.

Old fuel can make tuning difficult, best to add some fresh fuel.

FWIW, I have a good running Crossfire setup on my Grandfather's Vortec 5.7 running off a '7427 PCM that is also controlling a 4L60E...

[uncabob]

Can I change the VE table on my APU1 at the desk top computer with just the chip? I can't use the laptop to emulate yet.
I didn't want to have to use the TB regulator to make fuel pressure changes. I got the system in a basket and it was easy to make the change. I may regret that decision before I'm finished though. New fuel is next on the list. A faster computer may be the way to go later. This engine is up against a th400 and I will only be using the truck locally. I've worked on my own cars since I was twelve but this is my first try at tuning EFI.
Ill put fresh fuel in tomorrow and flash new chip with BPW of 128 and try again. The car guys I run with think I need a lot of advance to start. What say you?
Thanks for your help and hope this was a little clearer. Bob

[Six_Shooter]

Anything that can be changed in TunerPro and saved can then be programmed to an EEPROM, so yes you can change the VE table on the EEPROM. Just remember to blank/erase the EEPROM before programming a new bin file to it, otherwise some bits might not get changed (This is why many times a chip verify will fail).

There's no reason why your XP laptop won't run TP RT and emulate, many people have used old laptops for tuning even with newer software and hardware.

You've already changed the fuel system, but there's no real need to make fuel pressure changes. My Grandfather's truck is using the stock damper (first TB) and regulator (second TB) and it runs very well. I have not come across any reason to to need to change fuel pressure or how the fuel is delivered to each TB. Set the pressure to 12 PSIG and leave it. I have found with GM throttle body injection that 12 to 13 PSIG seems to work best for 99% of installs (late 454 excluded, that used a higher pressure from the factory).

You don't need a lot of advance to start. I still need to set base timing on my Grandfather's truck (set by feel/ear currently) but I know it's no more than 10* base. Initial start when I installed the new engine a couple weeks ago was probably closer to 0* and it started just fine. The 305 that the Vortec replaced had base timing around 8 to 10*. GM engines using the 7 or 8 pin HEI modules start on base timing and only switch over to computer controlled advanced where more timing is added once it's running.