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Thread: 200% duty cycle on injectors

  1. #16
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    Rog all, and concur. I'm looking for my star drivers now...

    (What do you want to bet dumbass here put the damned 4.3 injectors on this thing? That's what I get for dragging arse on the job....)
    -Phil, in Charleston, SC

    '89 S10 Blazer: SOA SAS: Dana 44s, 5.7L V8, 700R4; 35s, 4.10:1; TBI with 1227747 ECM
    '94 Grand Cherokee: 4.0, 4" lift, 31s
    '90 Jeep Cherokee: In progress: 5.7L V8,700R4,NP231C, D44s. TBI with 1227747 ECM
    '87 Fiero GT: 3.8SC (initial research stage)

  2. #17
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    Hey, help an idiot out...

    This file: "ARJT 91 C-G-K-R-V Truck 5.7TBI 700r4.bin (4.0 KB, 266 views)" is NOT the definitions file, right? It's what I'd use if I wanted to burn it to a chip and run it, completely not what I need at present, correct?

    I'm only asking because I never bothered reading past post 3 or so, where the ADX files I posted previously were put...

    EDIT - hmmm, there's an "ARJT.zip". Betcha there's my answer.....or, not. The only thing in it is "arjt.asm".... I haven't a clue what to do with it. Neither does Tunerpro.
    Last edited by 89S10_Project; 07-09-2016 at 05:49 AM.
    -Phil, in Charleston, SC

    '89 S10 Blazer: SOA SAS: Dana 44s, 5.7L V8, 700R4; 35s, 4.10:1; TBI with 1227747 ECM
    '94 Grand Cherokee: 4.0, 4" lift, 31s
    '90 Jeep Cherokee: In progress: 5.7L V8,700R4,NP231C, D44s. TBI with 1227747 ECM
    '87 Fiero GT: 3.8SC (initial research stage)

  3. #18
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    Get the ADX from the thead. The ARJT file is the bin that is programmed to a chip for the computer to use. You can use a XDF and Tunerpro to open the bin if you want.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by lionelhutz View Post
    Get the ADX from the thead. The ARJT file is the bin that is programmed to a chip for the computer to use. You can use a XDF and Tunerpro to open the bin if you want.
    I did get the ADX. It's still showing me a ridiculous utilization number for the injector.
    -Phil, in Charleston, SC

    '89 S10 Blazer: SOA SAS: Dana 44s, 5.7L V8, 700R4; 35s, 4.10:1; TBI with 1227747 ECM
    '94 Grand Cherokee: 4.0, 4" lift, 31s
    '90 Jeep Cherokee: In progress: 5.7L V8,700R4,NP231C, D44s. TBI with 1227747 ECM
    '87 Fiero GT: 3.8SC (initial research stage)

  5. #20
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    If you open the new xdf and look at the parameter tree you will find some patches with descriptive information. I don't recall what they do without checking, but you might need to apply patches to the bin before the advance and duty cycle will display correctly. I'm quite certain advance doesn't work without a patch.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by lionelhutz View Post
    If you open the new xdf and look at the parameter tree you will find some patches with descriptive information. I don't recall what they do without checking, but you might need to apply patches to the bin before the advance and duty cycle will display correctly. I'm quite certain advance doesn't work without a patch.
    Apply patches to the bin? Yeah, I have a USB arduino cable... and that's all. Pretty sure that is a waste of time
    -Phil, in Charleston, SC

    '89 S10 Blazer: SOA SAS: Dana 44s, 5.7L V8, 700R4; 35s, 4.10:1; TBI with 1227747 ECM
    '94 Grand Cherokee: 4.0, 4" lift, 31s
    '90 Jeep Cherokee: In progress: 5.7L V8,700R4,NP231C, D44s. TBI with 1227747 ECM
    '87 Fiero GT: 3.8SC (initial research stage)

  7. #22
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    OK looked at it and I do see something about spark advance reading needing to be adjusted in the definition. Here's a question, if it needs to be done to read this ecm and this definition is only for this application, why on earth isn't it already done? That seems a bit like selling someone a car and telling them they're going to have to build an axle.

    If I misunderstand and I'm supposed to apply patches to the firmware running on the ECM, well we're right back to my prior statement- I have no way to do so, and am not about to start burning chips before I can see what the motor is doing.'If this is the case, however, I'll be willing to discuss it if someone wants to burn a chip for me and tell me what I'll need to do in order to install it. I believe the first thing I will need to do is to remove the factory chip and solder in a socket, correct?
    Last edited by 89S10_Project; 07-09-2016 at 09:08 PM.
    -Phil, in Charleston, SC

    '89 S10 Blazer: SOA SAS: Dana 44s, 5.7L V8, 700R4; 35s, 4.10:1; TBI with 1227747 ECM
    '94 Grand Cherokee: 4.0, 4" lift, 31s
    '90 Jeep Cherokee: In progress: 5.7L V8,700R4,NP231C, D44s. TBI with 1227747 ECM
    '87 Fiero GT: 3.8SC (initial research stage)

  8. #23
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    OK, while I concur that the 200+% duty cycle on the injectors is clearly bad data, I wasn't able to conculsively prove to myself that I hadn't put the 4.3 injectors on the truck while I was dragging butt getting the 4.3/5.7 swap done. I tried to pull numbers off of the injectors but none were to be found. Also, a quick check with a bright flashlight showed the pattern to be questionable- feathering in the middle. At any rate, I got fed up with the questions with the injectors and the fuel pressure, and threw money at the problem.

    I could have ordered takeouts from Ebay and waited. But I've been waiting to get this thing running long enough.

    Could have gone to the salvage yard and pulled a TBI unit off a V8. But it can be notoriously difficult to see the block markings when the motor is installed, and the weather has been threatening rain all day.

    I went to Oreilly and found they had the FPR and injectors in stock. Just under $200 and I was out the door. Yes, it took a chunk out of my wallet, but I just got paid and had a nice raise so I'm not really caring about it- this part of the concern is now "problem solved, problem stayin' solved".... and I still don't have a car payment.

    Tore apart the FPR, found the metering assembly and FPR gaskets were all dry and cracked, questionable to say the least- either it was from age, past EOL, or disassembly. Don't know, don't care. It's fixed now.

    Just ran the truck for 20 minutes with a much-improved idle being the result. The truck was able to get to operating temp without having me blip the throttle to keep it running. This may well have been the drivability problem I've been having. At the very least it appears to have been a significant part of the problem.

    Tom explained the issue with regard the need to update the BIN to resolve the issues with Injector duty cycle and spark advance reading incorrectly. It makes snese the way he put it- basically it would work just fine for the equipment it was designed to talk to. My laptop, working through a hacked interface and reading deconstructed code by third and fourth parties, not so much.

    I'm starting to look at a future 16197427 upgrade. I'll need to talk Tom into burning me a chip for a 5.7 in front of a 700R4 first....
    -Phil, in Charleston, SC

    '89 S10 Blazer: SOA SAS: Dana 44s, 5.7L V8, 700R4; 35s, 4.10:1; TBI with 1227747 ECM
    '94 Grand Cherokee: 4.0, 4" lift, 31s
    '90 Jeep Cherokee: In progress: 5.7L V8,700R4,NP231C, D44s. TBI with 1227747 ECM
    '87 Fiero GT: 3.8SC (initial research stage)

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by 89S10_Project View Post
    OK looked at it and I do see something about spark advance reading needing to be adjusted in the definition. Here's a question, if it needs to be done to read this ecm and this definition is only for this application, why on earth isn't it already done? That seems a bit like selling someone a car and telling them they're going to have to build an axle.

    If I misunderstand and I'm supposed to apply patches to the firmware running on the ECM, well we're right back to my prior statement- I have no way to do so, and am not about to start burning chips before I can see what the motor is doing.'If this is the case, however, I'll be willing to discuss it if someone wants to burn a chip for me and tell me what I'll need to do in order to install it. I believe the first thing I will need to do is to remove the factory chip and solder in a socket, correct?
    Well, just don't use the bad data. The rest of the info except the spark advance and duty cycle is likely fine.

  10. #25
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    Okay, I figure I had better chime in here. I have a lot of time in the ASDU (350 TBI auto bin) and can tell you for certain that the timing and BPW/Duty cycle numbers you are looking at are only valid on a patched bin. if you use the $42 xdf and ADX, you are looking at valid information for an unpatched bin. Not sure what you are looking at to get the duty cycle numbers, but it isn't to standard $42 adx xdf because I am looking at them right now running a log I made from my truck.
    Last edited by jim_in_dorris; 07-10-2016 at 07:15 AM.
    Square body stepsides forever!!!

  11. #26
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    Thanks Jim, that is the conclusion that Tom and I came to as well. By which I mean Tom came to, and explained it to me. :)

    BTW, love the truck. I'd like to find one like it around here for the wife.
    -Phil, in Charleston, SC

    '89 S10 Blazer: SOA SAS: Dana 44s, 5.7L V8, 700R4; 35s, 4.10:1; TBI with 1227747 ECM
    '94 Grand Cherokee: 4.0, 4" lift, 31s
    '90 Jeep Cherokee: In progress: 5.7L V8,700R4,NP231C, D44s. TBI with 1227747 ECM
    '87 Fiero GT: 3.8SC (initial research stage)

  12. #27
    Super Moderator Six_Shooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim_in_dorris View Post
    Okay, I figure I had better chime in here. I have a lot of time in the ASDU (350 TBI auto bin) and can tell you for certain that the timing and BPW/Duty cycle numbers you are looking at are only valid on a patched bin. if you use the $42 xdf and ADX, you are looking at valid information for an unpatched bin. Not sure what you are looking at to get the duty cycle numbers, but it isn't to standard $42 adx xdf because I am looking at them right now running a log I made from my truck.

    This is basically what I was about to post, because some people that know how to patch the bin in the ECM took it upon themselves to work on these patches to have the DC and SA data in the datastream. :tup:

    So just simply ignore that data, because it won't be relevant for you.
    The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.

  13. #28
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    Did a test drive this evening, which I logged. I can confirm the truck drives MUCH better now, more power and smoother throttle response. Idle is smooth and there was no occurence of stalling. This problem wasn't related to the faulty indication of the injectors - they're still indicating the same ridiculous number - but the FPR and/or wrong and/or dirty injectors.
    -Phil, in Charleston, SC

    '89 S10 Blazer: SOA SAS: Dana 44s, 5.7L V8, 700R4; 35s, 4.10:1; TBI with 1227747 ECM
    '94 Grand Cherokee: 4.0, 4" lift, 31s
    '90 Jeep Cherokee: In progress: 5.7L V8,700R4,NP231C, D44s. TBI with 1227747 ECM
    '87 Fiero GT: 3.8SC (initial research stage)

  14. #29
    Fuel Injected! jim_in_dorris's Avatar
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    Ok, try this... when looking at data in tunerprort rt, use the daylight dash instead of the tuning dash. It doesn't have the fields for bpw, it will be less confusing.. what happens is to get those numbers, you have to change the data stream by patching the bin. Since your data stream is the stock gm data stream, the 2 fields you are looking at has nothing to do with the data you thought you were looking at. Kind of like looking at a phone number and expecting it to be a street address.
    Square body stepsides forever!!!

  15. #30
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    Yes I understand this. I have been ignoring the bad data for a while now.

    I appreciate everyon's input. This issue is now closed. I have started a new thread with commentary on the logs I pulled from the truck- prominent among those is that I am not seeing VSS data.
    -Phil, in Charleston, SC

    '89 S10 Blazer: SOA SAS: Dana 44s, 5.7L V8, 700R4; 35s, 4.10:1; TBI with 1227747 ECM
    '94 Grand Cherokee: 4.0, 4" lift, 31s
    '90 Jeep Cherokee: In progress: 5.7L V8,700R4,NP231C, D44s. TBI with 1227747 ECM
    '87 Fiero GT: 3.8SC (initial research stage)

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