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Thread: Need help with 16183247 PCM and TunerproRT interactions

  1. #1
    Fuel Injected! darbysan's Avatar
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    Need help with 16183247 PCM and TunerproRT interactions

    Been having an issue now for about 2 weeks, and it's driving me crazy. Basic issue is car starts and runs, but RPMS shoot to 2000-2500, voltage gauge bounces rapidly up/down, MIL light starts to flash, fan's won't turn on.... It was running fine for about 100 miiles , so this an anomaly that has just popped up. Basic info: L67 3800 SC engine and 4t60e Trans from '95 Riviera in an '87 Fiero. Had BIN file created by Ryan at Sinister. Using $5B_TPV5.xdf, $5B_V5.adx. Alternator has been checked out 3 times by different auto stores- all tested OK. Tried 3 PCM's- last one a new one from Autostore. Same results on all PCM's. Tried swapping around MEMCAL's, tried eliminating ZIF socket and plugging directly to Adapter, and tried several different PROMS, including one that worked even before I got one from Ryan.

    I've buzzed out every wire on the PCM. I also took voltage measurements via Backprobing all of the PCM connectors, both in "ON" and with the engine running. Voltage readings matched up to the FSM chart, and all grounds measured at less than 1 ohm.


    Decided to just try some stuff for investigation.


    First discovery is that when the Alt connector is plugged in, Voltage on the "L" pin bounces between 5 and 17 volts ( measured at the alt. Should be 12v. Voltage on the scanner is bouncing between 10 and 25v). RPM's are high-around 2500. If I connect the scanner, RPM's drop to normal (850). If I disconnect the scanner ( Tunerpro , XP Laptop), voltage on "L" drops to 0, RPM's go back up. Also, coolant temp readout on laptop is about 40 degrees cooler than actual. All other sensor data looks to be normal, although the data does jump around a bit(as an example, Coolant temps will vary up / down maybe 5-10 degrees every second, say from 160 degrees to 140, then back to 160). It used to read very steady, and accurately, but I lost my laptop and had to start over again, so no telling what settings I may be missing.


    If I drive the "L" pin on the Alternator via a direct line to voltage lamp, charging is steady at about 14.1 V. Voltage on "L" wire ( now unplugged) is 0 ( should be 12v). Connect laptop, and voltage on "L" wire goes to 12V steady ( where it should be), but now ESC error pops up, and MIL light is triggered on. Scanner is reporting voltage at 16-17, while VoltMeter at Alt is showing 14.2v. Disconnect the laptop, and about 3 seconds later the MIL light goes off, and the voltage on the "L" wire goes back to 0. ESC error code disappears.


    It is very repeatable that connecting / disconnecting inside Tunerpro ( not disconnecting any wires), causes dramatic change to Alternator charge output wire, MIL light, ESC error, and fan turn on. I'm thinking that somehow the PCM needs a better ground, and is finding a ground through the data line when connected, through the PC, and back.


    This may be obvious to some, but I've been looking at this for so long now everything looks like a solution / problem. It feels like a grounding issue, but I'm at a loss as to where else to look, or how to look differently at the grounds, to figure it out.

    I also have had to play around a bit with the ADX to get communication. I found that an older version ( for V2.2) had different commands in the Header for Connection and Monitor commands, and I sort of copied those to my version of $5BV5, and was able to get communication (old version had wait for silence commands buried in the macros). It may be that doing this is somehow causing some of these issues, but this is far deeper into Tunerpro than I have delved, and I am truly out of my depths. Any insight into this may also be of help to my issues. I need to fix this anyway, just so I can get good data.

    As always, your thoughts are appreciated. I'm running out of things to try....
    '85 SS El Camino, Gm Crate 350 L31, Vortec heads,TPI.
    https://sites.google.com/site/darbyselky/home

  2. #2
    Fuel Injected! darbysan's Avatar
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    Need help with $5bV5.adx

    Played around with this a lot today, and I 'm sure I need some help with the $5bV5.adx. I had to play with some of the settings in the Commands section to be able to get it to connect with the PCM, but I'm out of my league here, and I'm really not sure if the changes I made are correct or not. Basically had to add a "silence" command to both the Connection Command macro and the Monitor Command- and I have no idea if this is right or not. I will try and attach a copy of the ADX file on this post.

    More testing, with some video's today! I hope that those that are following this are enjoying the process, and maybe if we solve this it will help someone else in the future. Spark chasing is not a lot of fun, but it is part of the hobby.


    Took a video of the Voltage on the "L" wire while running. This will give you an indication of what I am dealing with.
    L wire voltages
    https://youtu.be/2y8-H3xO8Ws

    MIL Light flashing
    https://youtu.be/7f80-A3yp9k

    Today's actions:

    I hard wired the "L" wire to the Volt Light, bypassing PCM.
    Alt output now steady at 14.1-14.2 V
    No voltage at all on the "L" wire from the alternator ( Should be 12+)


    Starts and runs at 2000-2200 rpm.
    Connect laptop to ALDL- no change
    Connect Tunerpro in laptop
    RPM's immediately drop to normal 900
    Check engine light comes on steady (ESC error code 325)
    No fan operation for cooling fan. Have to manually trigger the fan to keep car cool while testing
    Coolant temp in Tunerpro reading about 30 degrees below actual
    Batt Volts in Tunerpro reading 16.1 - 16.6, vs 14.1 on the Voltmeter at the Alt


    TunerPro RT Data Video
    https://youtu.be/DIDX-6HeMww

    Disconnect Tunerpro on the computer
    RPM's remain steady at 900
    No Fan Operation
    MIL light goes off about 4 seconds after disconnect


    Unplug laptop from ALDL cable- no change. Still running at 900 rpm, no MIL light, No Fan


    Turn car off, and restart
    Back to 2200-2300 RPM


    Connect ALDL cable- no change
    Connect tunerpro inside laptop- immediate drop in RPM's to 900, SES light goes on, Still no fan operation
    Disconnect Tunerpro, SES light goes off, rpm's remain stable
    unplug ALDL cable, no change- rpm's still at 900, no fan


    So, I can start the car, plug in the laptop, and connect to Tunerpro, and I can get the RPM's to come down to normal. I can then unplug the laptop and go out for a drive, but I would have to trigger the fan via AC to keep the car cool. Good until I get home or stop the car, then the process would have to be repeated.


    Just typing as I'm thinking now, but it appears that there is a fault in the PCM somewhere ( or maybe the grounds to the PCM- although I've checked them out), that gets somewhat corrected by having the data start to flow to the PC. Just starting this data flow corrects the problem ( as far as RPM's are concerned) , until you shut off the car. Keeping the Scanner connected triggers a fault code ( ESC 325) that goes away when disconnected. Nothing seems to affect the fact that the fans won't trigger properly, even though they used to work fine, and will work when manually triggered.
    '85 SS El Camino, Gm Crate 350 L31, Vortec heads,TPI.
    https://sites.google.com/site/darbyselky/home

  3. #3
    Fuel Injected! darbysan's Avatar
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    More testing today, and more info. Found a good Thread on "modes" http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...rstanding+MODE

    This really helped me better understand the mode commands. I went into the ADX editor, and played around with some settings. I finally settled on 45 msec for a Silence time.
    For Connection Command

    I use Connection Macro
    ...Mode 8 Disable Comms Macro
    .....Mode 8 ( Disable Comms) Send
    .... Mode 8 ( Disable Comms) Reply
    ..Listen For Silence ( Repeat 3 times)
    ..Mode 1 Message 0 ( data ) Macro
    ....Mode 1 message 0 (Data) Send
    ....Mode 1 message 0 ( Data) reply
    ....Listen for silence (45 Msec) (Repeat 3 times)


    For Monitor Command
    Mode 1 Message 0 ( data ) Macro
    ...Mode 1 message 0 (Data) Send
    ...Mode 1 message 0 ( Data) reply
    ...Listen for silence (45 Msec) (Repeat 3 times)

    With these settings, I get a good, stable connection- although the data still bounces a little ( like Coolant Temp bouncing between 140-137F, about 1 time per sec). Coolant temp is also about 40 Degrees too cool.

    Here's the screwy part. When I start the car, rev's immediately jump to 2300 and stay there. There is no voltage on the "L" alternator wire. As soon as I "connect" TunerPro, Rev's drop to normal ( 900), and the voltage on the "L" wire goes to 12+v ( normal). I also get a MIL light, with Error code 325 ( ESC). Coolant temps consistently read about 40 degrees below actual. I checked the formula in Values, and it is correct per DS A221. Disconnect Tunerpro, and rev's stay low, but "L" wire goes back to 0 and the MIL light goes away. Very repeatable, over and over again. If I shut the car off and restart without TunerPro connected, revs go right back to 2300.

    More digging revealed that I might be able to send some codes with Tunerpro, even while not monitoring ( Mode 10, for example- code refresh). I thought maybe the connection codes might have something to do with my anomaly , so I sent Mode 8 Disable Comms Macro when the car was revving at 2300, Tunerpro not connected, and immediately revs dropped to normal. No MIL light, but no voltage on "L" wire either. Tried sending Mode 9 ( Enable Comms) macro, but no difference. Sending Code 8 Enable Macro was repeatable as far as getting the revs to normal. However, every time I stop the car and restart, I'm back to high revs.

    Does any of this "trigger" a thought with you guys? Is my setup for Connection and Monitoring OK?
    Last edited by darbysan; 06-20-2016 at 10:29 PM. Reason: Make indentations readable
    '85 SS El Camino, Gm Crate 350 L31, Vortec heads,TPI.
    https://sites.google.com/site/darbyselky/home

  4. #4
    Fuel Injected! darbysan's Avatar
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    Just closing this thread out ( I hate "dangling" threads). Could not discover the problem, but got lucky and was able to return the engine for refund. Now starting an install of a newer 3800SC series II that is OBDII. Hopefully, better results.
    '85 SS El Camino, Gm Crate 350 L31, Vortec heads,TPI.
    https://sites.google.com/site/darbyselky/home

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