$EE LT1 - Fueling tables & AE

**Terminal_Crazy** · 06-04-2016

Has anyone played with the
Fuel Boiling Time
Fuel On Cylinder Wall Mutiplier.
Tables ?

I think I'm seeing Burst Knock when I open the throttle. Everytime I shut the Throttle & open in again I get knock counts as soon as the throttle is opened.

I know there are no AE tables on $EE so was wondering the best way to counter this.

The other thought was DFCO is kicking in & i need to play with the blending tables ??

Any suggestions please.

Thanks
Mitch

**steveo** · 06-04-2016

there's no way DFCO is kicking in when you crack the throttle unless you seriously botched something

the cylinder wall and boiling time stuff is more of a multiplier against temperature and isn't going to be a helpful substitute for AE

'burst knock' is a reduction in timing during a burst of airflow, not related to you seeing knock counts (unless burst knock isn't strong enough)

in the absense of AE, i usually try to get into power enrichment way before it'd lean out from a quick throttle stab. running in PE lots isn't a bad thing (especially with a reasonable PE AFR around 13:1), just make sure you aren't going into PE while cruising

otherwise, might not be a lean condition, might just have too much advance?

**kur4o** · 06-05-2016

If you are runnig maf try this on eside.
It is some multiplier to add airflow to maf value.
I suspect lower value adds more air but not sure.
You can experiment and share the results.

RESERVED:1240A fcb $20 ; 1st below 51 kpa, and 900 rpm
RESERVED:1240B fcb $1B ; 2nd below 51 kpa, rpm between 900-2000
RESERVED:1240C fcb $1A ; 3rd below 51 kpa rpm above 2000
RESERVED:1240D fcb $18 ; 4th map between 51 kpa and 80 kpa, rpm below 900
RESERVED:1240E fcb $1A ; 5th map between 51 kpa and 80 kpa, rpm between 900-2000
RESERVED:1240F fcb $1B ; 6th map between 51 kpa and 80 kpa, rpm above 2000
RESERVED:12410 fcb $18 ; 7th map above 80 kpa, rpm below 900
RESERVED:12411 fcb $14 ; 8th map above 80 kpa, rpm between 900-2000
RESERVED:12412 fcb $17 ; 9th map above 80 kpa, rpm above 2000

You can also change the map and rpm thresholds here

12406 map lower value [0.312500 * X + 20.000000]
12407 map higher value [0.312500 * X + 20.000000]
12408 rpm lower value [rpm*12.5]
12409 rpm higher value [rpm*12.5]
;

If you are running Speed Density you have to dial ve tables perfect and play with the Open loop afr.

**Terminal_Crazy** · 06-05-2016

Originally Posted by kur4o

If you are runnig maf try this on eside.

If you are running Speed Density you have to dial ve tables perfect and play with the Open loop afr.

I'm running CL SD at the moment.
VE tables seem fairly good at 126-132

thanks
Mitch

**Terminal_Crazy** · 06-08-2016

After playing with a few things.

Looking at my last CL SD data log, i can see the a fast tps opening is followed by a lag in PE activating. (YES i know it's rich)

#9949 1201.5 tps=0 AFR= 15.84 871 rpm 0 retard
#9950 1201.6 tps=45.9 AFR= 15.43 909 rpm 3
#9951 1201.7 tps=47.9 AFR= 15.43 1036 rpm 7 retard
#9952 1201.8 tps=0 AFR= 15.55 2023 rpm PE 4 retard
#9953 1201.9 tps=0 AFR= 11.89 2277 rpm 0 retard
#9954 1202.0 tps=0 AFR= 11.30 2189 rpm

This looks like the PCM is really slow to react to changes. The throttle is already shut again by the time PE is activated.
Most of the logs show the richest AFR about 4-5 logs after the throttle is opened which is upto half a second delay.
Pretty poor response.

Q: Is the reason that OPEN Loop would be a preferred strategy ?
Q: What other benefits would OL give me as i keep reading it's more responsive ?

Thanks
Mitch

**kur4o** · 06-08-2016

Too bad SD mode is only used as backup when maf failes and is missing some key features.
Why don`t you try to up ve tables at that region high map, low rpm.
PE is slow responding; even on some other masks, there is delay to enter PE.
If you have wideband, OL is much better for modded engines since CL is really rough and slow on this 8 bit processor.
OL gives you some lean cruise options too, much better idle and much better throttle response at some conditions.

I`ve been thinking for some patches, such as lean cruise option with full spark advance and delays borrowed from v6 mask and some AE the way it is used on maf application.
If you want to experiment I can give it a try.

Give some more info on your current setup.

**Terminal_Crazy** · 06-08-2016

Originally Posted by kur4o

Too bad SD mode is only used as backup when maf failes and is missing some key features.

Hiya
I'm starting to realise the limitations :-)
I recently spent several hours smoothing & adjusting the VE tables before it dawned on me the precision actually used in the tables is 1/40 of what i'm looking at.

Why don`t you try to up ve tables at that region high map, low rpm.
PE is slow responding; even on some other masks, there is delay to enter PE.
If you have wideband, OL is much better for modded engines since CL is really rough and slow on this 8 bit processor.

OK i'll have a play in OL.
PE spiking lean and then fueling half a second later just sounds dumb even with my limited experience.

OL gives you some lean cruise options too, much better idle and much better throttle response at some conditions.

Thanks, I'll have a play with this now i have a new direction to go in.

I`ve been thinking for some patches, such as lean cruise option with full spark advance and delays borrowed from v6 mask and some AE the way it is used on maf application.
If you want to experiment I can give it a try.

Give some more info on your current setup.

Where were you guys 10 years ago when i wrote my datalogger?
I'll message you direct with some info.

Cheers

Mitch

**kur4o** · 06-09-2016

I got the message.
You have some serious setup.
I strongly suggest you try OL SD, you will feel the car much better and responsive.
Sometimes performance and emission can`t coexist at the same time.
At OL you can dial ve tables at regions that are out of blm range.
Steveo eehack allows you to monitor commanded AFR and than compare it with actual AFR from wideband.
Also you can enter forced OL through mode 4 control panel and start fine dial of ve without the need to burn new bin.
For better results of tuning, temporarily move the wideband sensor at one of the narrow band holes closer to the engine or if that`s not possible calculate the delay the exhaust gas reach the sensor.

One drawback of OL is the need to remove CAT or it will be done very soon, or worse melted if you run leaner AFR at cruise speed.

**Terminal_Crazy** · 06-09-2016

Originally Posted by kur4o

I got the message.
You have some serious setup.

Thanks
Probably should have had a bigger cam but it sounds faily stock.
I got the Mac's early on as i wanted it lowered.

I strongly suggest you try OL SD, you will feel the car much better and responsive.
Sometimes performance and emission can`t coexist at the same time.
At OL you can dial ve tables at regions that are out of blm range.

OL is the plan.
Can you explain that last line?
I thought BLM range covered all MAP/RPM range

Steveo eehack allows you to monitor commanded AFR and than compare it with actual AFR from wideband.

I've seen that but not tried it

[QUOTE]
Also you can enter forced OL through mode 4 control panel and start fine dial of ve without the need to burn new bin.
[QUOTE]
Can you give me some basic instruction for that ?

For better results of tuning, temporarily move the wideband sensor at one of the narrow band holes closer to the engine or if that`s not possible calculate the delay the exhaust gas reach the sensor.

Cable might be long enough, distance is about 3 times the length from valve to O2. (O2 INT Delay Airflow ?)
[QUOTE]

One drawback of OL is the need to remove CAT or it will be done very soon, or worse melted if you run leaner AFR at cruise speed.

Noted.
I'll take my chances with that, or gut it.
I have a cutout just in front anyway, currently blocked off as it faces the Wideband and might show a bit lean.

Thanks
Mitch

**kur4o** · 06-09-2016

BLMs have boundaries. You can check them at the definition file for ee mask.

At eehack main window, there is tab called Control. When you open it select Loop=open, BLM=off and then press "reset BLM" button[very important].
You can also set the AFR target value, but be cautious it is absolute value and once set it will be used at all engine conditions untill the checkbox is cleared.
There are other controls available too, if you want to change advance in realtime.

The best approach to dial ve will be to compare commanded vs actual AFR, but it will need steady engine conditions.

**Terminal_Crazy** · 06-14-2016

Hiya

I've just found the AFR Display Stabilization setting in EEHack.

I've earlier videod the AFR guage and EEHack's output together as i knew there was a difference/lag between the two.
EEHack was showing upto +0.4 and -0.2 AFR points different.
Wideband is Innovative LC2 on the AC Pressure input.

Which would be better tuning AFR against? with it on or off ?

thanks
Mitch

**steveo** · 06-14-2016

to gain some linearity you probably need to reprogram the LC2 to output a narrower band of AFR (say 11:1 to 17:1 or something) and reconfigure to that. worked very well for me when i was borrowing one.