how much is too much

[droptopstng]

ok now after reading and sitting back and watching and learning I have a question on like lets say a late tbi ecms like the 365......now on other speed density systems I have been able to ditch the map sensor all together, made drivability crap but allowed use of huge cams and race track passes. So what I would like to know is can the 365 be set up to run 8 injectors,maybe an ls throttle body, big single plane intake,and 434 cid small block,and do this all without vacuum

[EagleMark]

Yes and no need to do it without MAP... could just raise idle and force open loop at idle, tune VE and set up PE AFR at WOT.

Your talking about running Alpha N system. TPS position and fuel is all you really need to run fuel injection. Works good on race engines tuned with Wide Band O2 sensor. Probaly could do this with this type ECM instead of a race ECM...

[droptopstng]

thats what I was wondering ....any suggestions mr mark

[EagleMark]

Start tuning!

I've never done it, but theres enough options in $OD, look in the $OD PCM Information thread for the MPFI zip file. I know the rest could be done. Wait for some other opinions...

[droptopstng]

well like i said i hate carbs but this is something i would love to try so next week I will start gathering pieces up on the small side it will be a 406 but I also wanna use a 4l60e at the same time

[Six_Shooter]

One question:

Why would you want to run no MAP sensor?

[droptopstng]

i will have at most 4 or 5 inches of vacuum

[EagleMark]

Bump the idle up to 1200 to 1500 with min air screw, well now it'll be an idle adjustment screw and block off IAC and stick it back in. I don't think it will work idling that high... maybe? Your going to need a high stall converter anyways.

Force open loop to tune fuel needed, tune the rest of VE so it's drivable around track.

PE on tope of VE fuel will add to WOT fueling to get your AFR to race ratios and you still have PCM to run tranny. Really no need for narrow band O2 in a race motor but the MAP will help.

[gregs78cam]

I don't think there will be need to block off the IAC, I believe it will work up to around 1800rpm, just set where you want it idle. I would keep the MAP, it may be helpful. But it totally sound do-able.

[droptopstng]

ok well so far I poked around my little stash of parts today and this is what I have came up with thus far. 350 long block I know smaller than I wanted to start but well its free cuz I already have it ,a bullet solid roller camshaft unsure the specs I will check but its a bunch it was out of one of the drag cars that ran a 434,a 454 throttle body,victor single plane ,solid roller lifters with link bars,4.3 tbi wiring harness and 365 ecm,I am still digging for some 48 lb injectors I had somewhere around here and I gotta figure out the fuel rail parts.Im thinking about just making one at work.Dont know what heads I will end up with or if im gonna run any acc other than an alternator

[FSJ Guy]

If you're able to reprogram the PCM, a low idle vacuum should not be a problem. Just reprogram the fuel for those areas as appropriate. You may want to force open loop while at idle if you have problems with valve overlap fooling the O2 sensor.

I would keep the MAP sensor, too. That's about the only sensor that my system will not run well without.

[93V8S10]

For a drag car just forget the O2 and run open loop at all times.

[FSJ Guy]

For a drag car just forget the O2 and run open loop at all times.

Good point. I forgot that this was for a drag race vehicle.

[EagleMark]

Yup! But need a wideband to tune VE, will make it run and drive around and give what you need to see WOT!

[droptopstng]

Well no prob on the wb.keep a few around as long as I have this site I'm gonna pursue this but I'm out for a few days I gotta get my other toy back going. I am going to mr hydes Sunday mark so I may be pestering you on it....btw how do you force open loop