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Thread: International 345 TBI EFI conversion

  1. #1
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    International 345 TBI EFI conversion

    Finally going to do this, had the system built a few months ago, most of the parts collected but do to life just have not had the time.

    Someone gave me the harness and I think it was a front wheel drive car but plugs for ECM didn't fit anything so I threw it in a box. When I looked it was wired for three relays, heated O2 sensor which was good, but had to remove all the transmission controls and junk.

    Repined to 16197427 PCM running $OE because it's the only manual bin I have ever found for these PCMs. Has the Moates G1 adapter and 27F512 chip with a V8 Memcal. Also wired in already is the ALDL port, check engine light and Wide Band O2 signal wire from EGR valve as per $OD, $OE xdf modifications.

    Truck already has dual exhasust so each side will have O2 bungs welded in. One heated narrow band O2 sensor for the PCM and one for the wideband O2 sensor tuning until done, then remove it and I have a couple of bung bolt plugs to seal it up.

    System has already been run on test bench and chip set up with certian things disabled for this truck. PE delay removed and AFR set to 12.5 to 1 for now, we will see what the wide band O2 sensor says when we start tuning. Ran with no codes so should fire right up when done and go to work on VE. Dave had tuned an IH motor and worked on the spark table quite intensly and was kind enough to share the spark table.




    Truck is a 1972 IH 1210 (3/4 ton) 4x4 with utility bed my son got for a daily driver and tow rig for his Toyota Rock Crawler. 58k miles and hardly a spot of rust. Was stored inside heated shop for 20 years and used to plow property to street in Montana and went to town couple times a year for fuel.



    Got the truck delivered and found it had more than usual valve tap and on first towing trip had no power, by the time he got home it was barely running and oil pressure was low. Went looking around and found what usually goes first in these motors was the cam bearings severely worn and parts missing, well in oil pan.


    So we pulled the engine and although not bad did a complete rebuild. .20 over on the pistons with Teflon skirts, Isky dual grind camshaft degreed but I forget what we set it too? Balanced the complete rotating assembly. 3 angle valve job, little porting to the exhaust ports that have a hump in them. So with this done we could throw the new carb it had on it back on and the new points distributor back in and he's been driving it for months now... carb... points... manual choke... yuk...



    Machined the two barrel intake manifold to same size as a 5.7L TBI unit with custom made adapter. These 2 barrels are much narrower and the adapter is expensive do to angle of ports.




    Had a GM/IH Hybrid distributor machined for it. No EST modules mounted on aluminum heat sink, going with real GM distributor. Just don't like doing the DuraSpark conversion done to distributor that Custom EFIS designed about 15 years ago. The Duraspark conversions works OK if done right but I have seen to many done wrong and with all the timing EFI systems can use they end up firing the next spark plug. On the IH it takes out number 7 cylinder because of the firing order, just misfires in others when done wrong or reluctor slips. To many have just had the reluctor slip on the shaft and causes at least breakdown, worst case hole or broken number 7 piston. GM EFI cap and rotor is designed to channel the spark so this does not happen.





    That's as far as we got for now. Have complete fuel feed and return lines of a Chevy truck with filter in the middle we plan on using and cutting out sender mounting hole on fuel tank to weld in EFI sending unit mounting hole for drop in tank pump. Will keep updating as the project comes together!
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    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  2. #2
    Fuel Injected! JeepsAndGuns's Avatar
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    So your FINALLY gonna start on this?
    I have been reading about this for months now wondering if you were ever gonna put it in.

    I will finally have another person running the 7427 with a manual trans. What bin you gonna start with?
    79 Jeep Cherokee, AMC 401, T-18 manual trans, hydroboost, 16197427 MPFI system---the toy

    93 Jeep YJ Wrangler, 4.0L, 5 speed, 8.8 rear, homebrew hub conversion and big brakes, hydroboost, 2.5in OME lift, 31x10.50's---the daily driver

    99 Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee limited, 4.0L, auto, 2wd, leather and power everything, 99% stock---the long distance highway ride.

  3. #3
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    Yeah, me too?

    BMHK $OE it's the only manual bin I ever found, is there another one? Think it was your thread that confirmed what I was taught about bins a long time ago from auto to manual having lots of changes not normally seen in simple xdf or software like TunerCat. Guys who can dissemble can find subtle differences but the new XDF v250 stuff has found so many parameters and TunerPro compare function confirmed many differences in IAC logic to begin with.

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  4. #4
    Vintage Methane Ejector
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    BHDC is also manual.

  5. #5
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    So at this point I think I am sticking with 7.4L Manual $OE bin since I've done a lot to it already in preparation for start up, actually even burned a 27Fs512 chip for G1 Moates adapter. Harness is going in today, been tinkering, collecting parts, etc... this week.

    Conversation on 5.7L Manual chips is found here:
    http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...-16197427-5.7L...

    Have stock fuel lines from TBI truck we are going to run back to tank. Greg is coming over with a bucket type in tank pump that may work, it's a very short unit he says. This tank is only 7-8 inches tall, not to wide and very long!

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  6. #6
    Fuel Injected! JeepsAndGuns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EagleMark View Post
    Yeah, me too?

    BMHK $OE it's the only manual bin I ever found, is there another one? Think it was your thread that confirmed what I was taught about bins a long time ago from auto to manual having lots of changes not normally seen in simple xdf or software like TunerCat. Guys who can dissemble can find subtle differences but the new XDF v250 stuff has found so many parameters and TunerPro compare function confirmed many differences in IAC logic to begin with.
    I tried a $0D auto bin once. I copied over my fuel and spark tables, cyl volume and injector flows, and a handfull of other parameters. I tried it and hated it. IAC logic SUCKED. I only drove it about a mile before I turned around and came back home and removed and deleted that bin...lol
    79 Jeep Cherokee, AMC 401, T-18 manual trans, hydroboost, 16197427 MPFI system---the toy

    93 Jeep YJ Wrangler, 4.0L, 5 speed, 8.8 rear, homebrew hub conversion and big brakes, hydroboost, 2.5in OME lift, 31x10.50's---the daily driver

    99 Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee limited, 4.0L, auto, 2wd, leather and power everything, 99% stock---the long distance highway ride.

  7. #7
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    Well I found another reason to run $OE because it has direct connection to PCM from VSS and no DRAC/VSSB buffer. But now what VSS to buy?

    Four choices from Jags That run for aftermarket in speedo line VSS. Can rule out number 4, I think 1 and 2 are for DRAC/VSSB? That leaves 3?

    There are 4 types of VSS signals required by the ECM:

    1. The two-pulse (2000 pulses per mile) square wave (D.C current or direct current) used on all TBI engines thru 1992, all computer-controlled-carbureted engines, and on 1985-1989 TPI engines.

    2. A four-pulse (4000 pulses per mile) sine-wave (A.C. current or alternating current) signal isr equired by the 1990-1993 TPI, 1992-1993 LT1 engines, and 1990-1993 Camaro 3.1/3.4 V6 engines.

    3. A 40 pulse per driveshaft revolution speed sensor used on 1993 and newer trucks with automatic -transmission, 1994 and newer rear drive cars with the automatic transmission.

    4. A 17 tooth per driveshaft revolution speed sensor used on 1993-1997 LT1 engines with the Borg-Warner 6-speed transmission. An 11 tooth reluctor ring is used on 1993 LT1 engines with the Borg-Warner wide ratio (3.35 First gear) 6-speed transmission.

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  8. #8
    Fuel Injected! gregs78cam's Avatar
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    The way I understand it, the 40pp driveshaft sensor is used as a input for the VSSB, and then the VSSB outputs a 2000ppm, and 4000ppm signal to the PCM. I think the 2000ppm and 4000ppm sensors can be fed directly into the PCM.
    1978 Camaro Type LT, 383, Dual TBI, '7427, 4L80E
    1981 Camaro Z-28 Clone, T-Tops, 350/TH350
    1981 Camaro Berlinetta, V-6, 3spd
    1974 Chevy/GMC Truck, '90 TBI 350, '7427, TH350, NP203, 6" lift, 35s

  9. #9
    Fuel Injected! JeepsAndGuns's Avatar
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    We touched on this back in my 7427 thread. I have the #1 from JTR. All I had to do was set the parameter (I think it was a flag?) in the bin that says input not from DRAC. Speed reads and reads corectly.
    It did not work untill I set it for input not from drac.
    79 Jeep Cherokee, AMC 401, T-18 manual trans, hydroboost, 16197427 MPFI system---the toy

    93 Jeep YJ Wrangler, 4.0L, 5 speed, 8.8 rear, homebrew hub conversion and big brakes, hydroboost, 2.5in OME lift, 31x10.50's---the daily driver

    99 Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee limited, 4.0L, auto, 2wd, leather and power everything, 99% stock---the long distance highway ride.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by JeepsAndGuns View Post
    We touched on this back in my 7427 thread. I have the #1 from JTR. All I had to do was set the parameter (I think it was a flag?) in the bin that says input not from DRAC. Speed reads and reads corectly.
    It did not work untill I set it for input not from drac.
    That's what I did, too. I have the 2PRS (something like that), also. I also marked the same flag so the PCM knows what type of input to expect. Instant success. :D

    I found it interesting that GM even put that option in the code. But, of course, I'm not complaining.
    Familiar with 1227747 and 16197427 PCMs

  11. #11
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    Awhile back when I did this harness I noticed the 4l80E wiring diagram went from VSS to PCM. But the 4L60E went to a DRAC/VSSB buffer so at that time I only had an $OE manual bin and wired that way.

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  12. #12
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    Well it has taken longer then expected but my kid wanted to do the entire project himself. With school and a full time job he got er done!

    I was just a teacher and the project is running. Now just have to cover harness in convoluted tubing and proceed to tuning. Which is another thing he wants to learn so TunerPro and ADX and XDF and his starter $OE manual bin are loaded on his laptop.


    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  13. #13
    Fuel Injected! JeepsAndGuns's Avatar
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    Way to go! Keep us updated as the tuning moves along. I'm intrested in seeing how it turns out and compares to how I have mine set up.
    79 Jeep Cherokee, AMC 401, T-18 manual trans, hydroboost, 16197427 MPFI system---the toy

    93 Jeep YJ Wrangler, 4.0L, 5 speed, 8.8 rear, homebrew hub conversion and big brakes, hydroboost, 2.5in OME lift, 31x10.50's---the daily driver

    99 Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee limited, 4.0L, auto, 2wd, leather and power everything, 99% stock---the long distance highway ride.

  14. #14
    EFI GearHead ! EagleMark's Avatar
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    Well so far the tune is stock $OE that you used, except for EGR etc turned off. It started with a turn of the key and idled nicely!

    Only 500% better then with carb, manual choke and points...

    Truck sat all night and kid (Jesse) was so excited he said this morning before he left for work.. "You think it will start again like that?" I said yup, guarentee it, and he just turned the key and it ran better then it ever did warmed up.

    I have a VE table from a 7747 tuned to a stock Scout 345 engine and dave gave me a IH timing table he made but it's pretty aggresive from a lighter scout. His truck is heavier, has a utility bed and he tows with it. Also has an Isky dual grind cam! He also wants to learn to tune so I am going to just tune from that bin and teach him. While we are working on VE I'll get to see how the knock is going to react in this engine, do some of the tricks we talked about, listen by ear and see if we can get it reliable to leave on or get a feel for it while tuning then turn off.

    By then he will need an oil change and we will install the CTS I modified in drian pan for oil temps (wired into trans temp pin) to see if we can find that spark advance zone that does not help, does not cause knock but will raise oil temps!

    1990 Chevy Suburban 5.7L Auto ECM 1227747 $42!
    1998 Chevy Silverado 5.7L Vortec 0411 Swap to RoadRunner!
    -= =-

  15. #15
    Fuel Injected!
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    I made that same adapter for an old scout I used to have except that I used countersunk head allens instead of counter bored. The project never got finished, and got sold to clean up around here unfinished :( I still have a brand new small cap HEI distributor for an IH V8 out in the garage taking up space. Cool that it went that well>>>

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