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Thread: Wide Band O2 (WBO2 Tuning) Spreadsheet

  1. #61
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDeeZ View Post
    Question:

    All of the changes made to the Open Throttle VE table were a reduction in VE, as I would expect based on the rich AFRs during the capture of that particular log. However, there are 3 cells in Idle VE table that were modified by the spreadsheet that were all an increase in VE.... Two cells in particular, that are the same RPM and KPA between both tables, cells were increased in the Idle VE table, and, decreased in the Open Throttle. Possibly a spike of irrelevant data causing the discrepancy?
    Welcome to the complex world of tuning. Change parameters, and see what happens in the spreadsheet (that's tuning). Typically increasing a VE cell value will lower AFR (richer). Typically decreasing a VE cell value will increase AFR (leaner). It's a good plan to have at least 5 data points (counts) in a VE cell, before making changes to the VE cell. It's a good plan the "Smooth" peaks and valleys in the VE Table.

    Stating the obvious:
    An engine requires less fuel at low RPM's and light engine load.
    An engine requires more fuel at high RPM's and heavy engine load.
    An engine needs more fuel to accelerate to 70 MPH, yet an engine needs less fuel to maintain 70 MPH once it achieves 70 MPH.

    The VE Table is 3 dimensional, Load / Fuel / RPM, understanding the three statements above is 3 dimensional thinking.

    dave w

  2. #62
    Fuel Injected! CDeeZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave w View Post
    Welcome to the complex world of tuning.
    Yeah tell me about it. Sometimes I wish I would have just jammed another LS in this truck like I did in my other TBI era OBS. Ironically, tuning an LS, even with a power-adder is easier for me. But, TBI is where I first started tinkering with EFI and it always has held a soft spot in my heart. It was the first transition from the era of carburetion into injection. And, TBI trucks just run forever and ever. Sure, you'll have burned up 3 or 4 anemic 4L60s in that time but the 300k+ mi TBI SBC is still going and doing what it was intended to do.

    In a way it is cool though to have a strong TBI setup and keep the OBD1 era going, becuase OBD1 had to exist before anything that came after it.

    In my interpretation of the data I mentioned above, I figured basically what you are saying about ignoring the spikes in the data and smoothing it all down as necessary.

    Dave, your spreadsheet (and other contributions) have helped me and many, many others. I know Mark is pleased. I appreciate your efforts and I'll say this.... Just tell me where I need to mail the money for beer and hookers to say, thanks, and I will!
    Last edited by CDeeZ; 01-16-2019 at 10:01 AM.

  3. #63
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDeeZ View Post
    Dave, your spreadsheet (and other contributions) have helped me and many, many others. I know Mark is pleased. I appreciate your efforts and I'll say this.... Just tell me where I need to mail the money for beer and hookers to say, thanks, and I will!
    Your public acknowledgement and kind words about my support of the board is both heart warming and very much appreciated!

    dave w

  4. #64
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    good morning Dave w,

    i am having a problem understanding the spreadsheet from post 25.. i was able to get everything set up and datalog and such...

    i copy and pasted the large csv export from tuner pro to the "insert datalog" sheet.

    the issue i am having is locating the data that is needed on the "near idle wbo2 correction" and the "off idle wbo2 correction" sheets more specifically i am having issue with locating the "near idle VE table from tunerpro" and the "off idle VE table from tunerpro" tables.

    i can find tables in the history "blm (off idle)" and "blm (near idle)" but i read that the spreadsheet ignores blm entirely....

    i am using "Advanced $0D TP5 v251.xdf" with "A217 $0Dtp5 v250.adx"

    any help would be greatly appreciated.

    thanks, grum.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumbolt View Post

    i am having issue with locating the "near idle VE table from tunerpro" and the "off idle VE table from tunerpro" tables.
    are "Idle VE vs. MAP vs. RPM" and "Open Throttle VE vs. MAP vs. RPM" the correct tables?

    sorry to ask so many novice questions but i just dont want to make any mistakes.. i am sure as i become more acclimated to tuning, it will not seem so daunting lol..

    thanks again, grum.

  6. #66
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    Yes, "Idle VE vs. MAP vs. RPM" and "Open Throttle VE vs. MAP vs. RPM" are the correct tables.

    dave w

    BPW Parameters.JPG

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave w View Post
    Yes, "Idle VE vs. MAP vs. RPM" and "Open Throttle VE vs. MAP vs. RPM" are the correct tables.

    dave w

    BPW Parameters.JPG
    awesome, thanks.

    i used that and then copied the prescribed values back to those tables after logging.

    then i relogged and did it again with the fine tune numbers..

    it seems to be much better now!

    all the stuff i am using in tunerproRT including the log files and spreadsheets are located at http://robertweaver.net/tuning/

    i think i have things kinda sorted out, i still have to do some logging and tuning while driving it around, but that will require someone to hold the laptop being that the buggy isnt super smooth and the terrain is anything but laptop friendly lol

    i did see one thing that bothered me, while it was idling on log 2, everything seemed normal then everything dipped, the engine recovered and seemed ok, but i dont know what made it all dip almost to the point of stalling.

    if you wouldnt mind taking a look and seeing if it looks like i am on the right track it would be greatly appreciated.

    thanks again,
    grum

    the reason for the link above is the website would not allow me to upload the logs, xls, or csv files.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by grumbolt; 06-02-2020 at 02:40 AM. Reason: explanation for link instead of uploading logs...

  8. #68
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    I'm thinking the .xdl is an allowed file type. Often files types that are not allowed can be compressed to a .zip file and attached.

    dave w
    Attached Files Attached Files

  9. #69
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    here are the logs from the first 2 tries at tuning..

    thanks again for your help and insight.

  10. #70
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumbolt View Post
    here are the logs from the first 2 tries at tuning..

    thanks again for your help and insight.
    Files??

  11. #71
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    lol i must have gotten the cart ahead of the horse lol... here they are now...

    i had originally saved them as .rar files, i changed them to .zip and they upload now...

    thanks again.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  12. #72
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    I can't speak directly to the logs you posted. I honestly do not have the free time to "crunch" posted data logs.

    Tuning VE Tables often requires Smoothing the Peaks and Valleys in the VE Table that occur from the using the WBO2 spreadsheet. Smoothing is 3D thinking. An engine under heavy load and high RPM's require more fuel than an engine under light load and low RPM's. Kpa is engine load, an engine at 100 Kpa is at or close to WOT. The Kpa will be near 100 Kpa when the engine is being started. Engines need more fuel accelerating to 70 MPH than maintaining a cruising speed of 70 MPH. The computer interpolates VE values of the surrounding cells, so if the idle is 43 Kpa @ 700 RPM's the computer interpolates VE table values of cells 600 RPM's / 40 Kpa and 800 RPM's 40 Kpa. If the idle was 48 Kpa @ 700 RPM's the computer will interpolate cells 600 RPM's / 50 Kap and 800 RPM's 50 Kpa. As expected the VE value for 600 RPM's / 50 Kpa is lower than the VE value for 800 RPM's / 50 Kpa.

    The attached has sample screen shots using the TunerPro "Smoothing" tool. I often use .55 for smoothing daily drivers. Tuning is experimenting, so smoothing with values between .35 ~ .75 are typical. Extreme peaks or valleys indicate something is VERY WRONG!. Minor peaks and / or minor valleys are common.

    In a perfect world a data log would have information for every cell in the VE Table, but that would be nearly impossible to accomplish. It seems unlikely a daily driver will need tuning in the extreme corners of the VE table.

    dave w
    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. #73
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    thanks for the insight.. the logs i currently have only have near idle data, i havent done any driving around with it yet, i will need to get someone to either drive, or hold the laptop to prevent it from being smashed.. the truck is off road use and doesnt really ride all that nice.. that being said, how long would you suggest to drive around while logging to get a good sample?

    thanks, grum

  14. #74
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    ive been doing a little looking and it seems that aldldroid will datalog and it says it is compatable with tunerpro. if so, i have an old cell phone that i can use for datalogging as well as a dash board, if the data cable charges the phone at the same time as datalogging it will be perfectly suited for what i need... i can just set up a mount on the dash plug it in and leave it plugged into the aldl port. set it up to sync with my home server when on wifi and poof i dont even have to pull the data manually from the phone, just park the trailer close enough to the house for the wifi to connect! ill be sure to report back if i can get it working the way i want it to!

    if you have any words of wisdom on this idea, i am as always all ears :)


    thanks, grum

  15. #75
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    aldldroid does the datalogging and has a nice setup for a dashboard, the only issue i have is i cant charge the phone while datalogging, and the battery will die faster due to the phone powering the adapter.

    i reached out to 3400tZ (author of ALDLDroid) on facebook and he was able to get my questions answered about logging and provided some insight on powering the phone and adapter from an external source!

    here is the link that i think will solve that issue.
    https://blog.workshoptwelve.com/2019...-CNZOraKgacvXU

    thanks, grum

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