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Thread: Odd Fire TBI

  1. #76
    Super Moderator Six_Shooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave w View Post
    I'm curious about your data logging and tuning plans? Identical VE Tables in both '7747's? Identical Spark Table in both 7747's? Two Laptops with two ALDL cables? One Laptop with two TunerPro RT sessions running?

    dave w
    Two sessions of Tuner Pro is possible, but not connected to two separate devices from each session. Only one session at a time can be connected to external hardware. This can be a bit annoying when you are trying to connect with a second session and forget that the first session is still "connected" (hardware not released) when trying to quickly switch back and forth. This goes for both emulation and datalogging. Got caught on that one a few times. :/

    There is dual emulator support for in TunerPro RT used with Nissans that use split VE tables, but not sure if that is locked to Nissan applications or not. Whole tables should be uploaded to both Ostrichs, but Mark (that writes TunerPro) would know better how it's configured. But by the time you buy two Ostrich 2.0s and get everything set up, a Megasquirt 2 that will natively run an odd fire engine would be more cost effective and work better in the end. *shrug* '7747s are not known for high speed calculations, so staying in sync between a pair of them I still believe is going to be an issue when the engine gets some load on it.
    The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by lionelhutz View Post
    I love the 1 step at a time approach. No matter what system you're working with you've got to get it running before you can worry about doing anything more. It's the only way to learn and you're doing a good job on such an oddball system.
    Agreed. Getting it to run is a good plateau to rest on. Fuel pressure at 12-13 psi is good. I'd aim for as much common ground between the two systems as possible. Do you have the info to change the number of cylinders to three? I can dig that up...

  3. #78
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post
    Agreed. Getting it to run is a good plateau to rest on. Fuel pressure at 12-13 psi is good. I'd aim for as much common ground between the two systems as possible. Do you have the info to change the number of cylinders to three? I can dig that up...
    When I change the cylinder select value, Hex address 0016 changes. I think changing the Hex value to 03 would be the correct value?

    See attached screen shot for an example of a 3 cylinder BPW (1.9 liters is half of a 3.8 liter V6 / figuring two 45 lb TBI injectors).

    dave w
    Attached Files Attached Files

  4. #79
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    knumcyl is a divisor and lower number of cylinders results in a higher value. Three cylinder is 96d or 60h.

  5. #80
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post
    knumcyl is a divisor and lower number of cylinders results in a higher value. Three cylinder is 96d or 60h.
    Interesting; see attached.

    dave w

  6. #81
    Fuel Injected! Willys43's Avatar
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    Well gents I have never been able to stabilize the secondary computor. I finally abandoned the spark control and put an HEI dist with mechanically advanced spark. Starts and runs, first time every time.

  7. #82
    Super Moderator dave w's Avatar
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    Thanks for the update.

    dave w

  8. #83
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    Interesting to note. Are you talking about the AFR? Or the spark timing?

  9. #84
    Super Moderator Six_Shooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1project2many View Post
    Interesting to note. Are you talking about the AFR? Or the spark timing?
    It's been a while since I read about the physical connections in this thread, but IIRC he was using one ECM for both spark and fuel and the second ECM for spark only. I can see how keeping the second ECM in sync would be an issue, especially where spark timing is so critical. fuel could literally be dumped in at pretty much any time, especially when it comes to TBI fueling and still run without a noticeable issue... *shrug*
    The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.

  10. #85
    Super Moderator Six_Shooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willys43 View Post
    Well gents I have never been able to stabilize the secondary computor. I finally abandoned the spark control and put an HEI dist with mechanically advanced spark. Starts and runs, first time every time.
    Have you tried swapping ECMs from "main" to "secondary" and visa-versa to see if it's an ECM issue?
    The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.

  11. #86
    Fuel Injected! Willys43's Avatar
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    There secondary computor didnt have the ability to advance the spark 90 degrees even though the software would let you change the field to 89.65 degrees. The original schematic was incorrect. Only 1 ignition control module can be used. I could get 1 or 2 sparks out of the second computor then nothing. Changing cyl count to 3, and reducing fuel bpw to 137 resultd in 50% of required fuel. Using cyl count of 6 th fuel pulse of once per rev reduced fuel pulse to every other rev- 50% short. Fuel was still immaterial since I only had sprk on 1,3,5. Excellant excercise, project wasn t completed the way iI had hoped, but I have learned enough that I will never have a problem diagnosing Efi systems. Willys is running very well with 4.3 bin with bpw reduced to 137, havn t even logged it yet. That will come in time. Thanks for ll your help!

    Craig

  12. #87
    Super Moderator Six_Shooter's Avatar
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    I thought you were using dual triggers and dual ICMs? That would mean that you wouldn't need to change the trigger angle, because the ECM wouldn't know about the other ECM controlling the other 3 cylinders.

    If you were trying to trigger two ICMs off a single trigger, yeah that wouldn't work, because of a lack of isolation between the inputs causing them to interfere with each other.
    The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.

  13. #88
    Fuel Injected! Willys43's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six_Shooter View Post
    I thought you were using dual triggers and dual ICMs? That would mean that you wouldn't need to change the trigger angle, because the ECM wouldn't know about the other ECM controlling the other 3 cylinders.

    If you were trying to trigger two ICMs off a single trigger, yeah that wouldn't work, because of a lack of isolation between the inputs causing them to interfere with each other.

    I was using single trigger and dual ICM. The reason twoICM wouldn't work is becuse the ICM provides a continuos path to ground except when it breaks that ground to cause the coil to fire. Two ICMs, each breaking the ground path to fire the coil at 90 spread = a continuos ground path and no break in the ground. When I removed one ICM I had fire at 1,3,5 and a couple 2,4,6, then nothing at 2,4,6. Two triggers set at 90* might work for the spark, then the fueling is still gonna be goofier than I wanted to bite into.

  14. #89
    Fuel Injected! Willys43's Avatar
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    I just walked outside, 11 degrees in KC, willys started 1st attemp. I still havent changed any programming

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