What if, Black Box PCM repurposed as TCM?

[LRT]

From the photos that is a 2007 or 2008 58x truck engine. It looks like it may have DOD (AFM).

This is where the Rabbit hole can get very deep, very quickly.

Options:
1) Sell this engine and purchase a 24x engine - to use a PCM.
2) Use a Lingenfelter 58x to 24x converter - to use a PCM.
3) Use an E67 with a TBSS calibration.

No matter which of these options you choose, I would not recommend trying to reuse the S10 4L60E. Also, the additional "small" costs are going to add up quickly.

[dave w]

I'm thinking the engine pictured in post 14 would be the LY5 / VIN code "J"?

I'm thinking the knock sensors are "Flat Response"; so I'm wondering what would be needed to be done in a 24x (512K) flash to get these flat response sensors to work correctly? Is there a native 24x (512K) flash application (aluminum block) I can get the Flat Response parameters from? I wonder if I need to use a different part # Flat Response knock sensor for a 512K flash application.

dave w

[LRT]

Most people who go down this road will mount Gen 3 (Resonant) knock sensors on the sides of the Gen 4 block.

There is no Rosetta Stone for this component / controller mismatch. There are commercial suppliers (Howell and PSI come to mind) who sell wiring harnesses and PCMs for 24x LS2 engine layouts (with Flat Response knock sensors), but in actuality these have ZERO knock protection - in other words the PCMs don't work correctly with the Flat Response knock sensors.

[lionelhutz]

LRT- you bring up a good point. Assuming it's a V6 4L60e, it would require a rebuild to V8 standards before it had any chance of standing up behind this engine.

[dave w]

What if I open up the possibility of a 24x / 1Meg PCM (blue / green) with flat response? I have a 1Meg DBC PCM. I'm assuming the Lingenfelter will work with a 1Meg PCM.

dave w

[LRT]

If you Google the topic (LS2 knock sensors with PCM), you could probably read for hours. A handful of people "claim" to have made this work - although none have shared how. In the end, with a PCM (Blue / Red or Blue / Green) the Gen 3 (Resonant) knock sensors will need to be used.

Helped out on one of these (24x with Flat Response knock sensors) which was fitted with a Howell wiring harness and PCM. Logging data, there was no knock sensor input being sent to the PCM. In the end, the answer was to install the older (Gen 3) Resonant knock sensors to the sides of the block.

[Skinny Pedal]

Gen 3 4.3s were flat response.

[dave w]

Gen 3 4.3s were flat response.

Interesting, maybe you can post a stock 4.3 flat response .ctz / .cal / .bin file?

Attached is a screen shot from EFI Live. I'm sure there are more parameters involved for setting flat response.

dave w

[mecanicman]

an e67 pcm is a can bus network setup and none of the stock gauges will work. You can drill and tap the block for the ls1 style(valley) knock sensor or repin for the ls3 style, either way requires tuning the knock sensor tables as they do not work with stock settings. You should check out s10forum.com lsx discussion section. All of the info your seeking has been discussed.

[Skinny Pedal]

Sure thing.

Here is a half meg and 1 meg CTZ

[LRT]

The referral to the S10 forum will provide insight on what others have already tried.

People have already tried using the 4.3L Flat Response knock sensors, and tune settings - without success.

The E38 is 100% Canbus - and is not compatible with vehicles that require Serial Data output to the OEM gauges.

The E67 is capable of outputting Serial Data to the gauges. The TBSS calibrations (and a few others) are setup for Serial Data output.

So an E67 with a TBSS calibration is a viable option.

If memory serves, the 1997 S10 Fuel Gauge uses a buffer module between the fuel sender and the PCM - but it can be rewired to read the correct fuel level without the stock PCM.

[Hog]

LRT- you bring up a good point. Assuming it's a V6 4L60e, it would require a rebuild to V8 standards before it had any chance of standing up behind this engine.

There is no difference strength wise between the 4.3 4l60e and the V8 units. The earlier V6 4l60/700r4s used to have fewer clutches in the 3-4 clutch pack, but the later 60e's were the same.

I have run a 1999 4.3 60e and DCLF high stall V6 TC behind my Vortec 350 for years. And it gets wailed on. The DCLF TC was a very nice upgrade considering it was a stock OEM part.

peace
Hog

[LRT]

There is a significant difference in durability between the the S10 4L60E and the 4L65E that would have been originally mated with the LY5 engine. Additionally, I believe to mate the S10 4L60E to the LY5 might require a different flexplate, and a spacer, and longer flexplate bolts. In the end, using an LSx 4L65E seems like a better choice.

[Montecarlodrag]

I have done Gen4 swaps and I'd advice you to sell that engine and buy a Gen3. Reasons:

1- Unless you are planning to change the crank reluctor and cam wheel, you need to buy a Lingenfelter converter box. $240 expense.
2- You need to re-arrange the harness to change several plugs
3- You need to buy a Gen3 alternator, the one from a Gen4 will not charge properly without a E38 ECM and BCM, it will default to 13.8V. This is good for most setups, but you need an older one if you need/want proper voltage regulation.
4- Knock sensors will never work properly. There are ways to do it but it's time consuming and in my opinion not completely reliable.
5- You will be forced to go DBC, since the Gen4 TB isn't compatible with Gen3 DBW TAC/Pedal (you'd need yet another converter box). You need a 90mm TB (another expense).
6- Gen3 PCM will not control DOD nor VVT

It's more work and more money with no real advantages.

[Hog]

There is a significant difference in durability between the the S10 4L60E and the 4L65E that would have been originally mated with the LY5 engine. .

Yes, the 4l60e is rated at 360lb/ft torque and 610 gearbox lb/ft of torque. The 4l65e is rated at 380 lb/ft of torque and 670lb/ft of gearbox torque.

peace
Hog