Tuning in closed loop will make you chase your tail. The ECM will often counter the adjustments that you make, or worse yet already be making adjustments while you're trying to adjust the fueling, making a see-saw, tail chasing situation.
What WBO2 do you have?
The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.
I just have the stock o2 sensor.. I thought the wide band o2 was a different one then stock.. am I right?
Also I have no cats on the truck it has the y pipe then a glass pack at about a foot past where the cat would be.. has a stock o2 sensor right past the y pipe
Yes, WBO2 would be a seperate O2 sensor... You mentioned that your WBO2 sensor was reading in the 10s....
So now I'm confused, you say you don't have a WBO2, but you have data from somewhere that says that you're running in the 10's AFR? If you're using any calculated value based on the NBO2 sensor, ignore it. The NBO2 sensor is really a switch and not a sensor... look out the output curve of a NBO2 sensor and you will see a very steep line that is around 14.7 AFR (for gas, AKA Lambda 1.0), and very flat shelves above and below that switch point.
The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.
On my tuner pro rt when I go to the history tables it has the option to look at blms off idle blms at idle knock retard... and one is wbo2 and on my dashboard (dashboard on tuner pro) I have a wbo2 gauge that stays at 10... that's why I never paid attention to it... so basically me using my stock o2 sensor to adjust blms in closed loop was a nightmare? What do you suggest get a wbo2 and tune ve tables in open loop? Sorry this weekend was my first Crack at tuning and I have to say it's not as fun as I thought it was going to be lol... what wbo2 should I buy?
OK, so that "WBO2" data on your dash is not really anything. If it's set up how I THINK it might be set up, it'll be stuck at 10 because there's no actual input to read, and default would be 10, ignore it.
Well, there are ways to tune in open loop and no WBO2, but that's usually only after you've tuned for a long time and can recognize the patterns you need to...
Yes, I suggest getting a WBO2 sensor, that will give you better data about fueling than any NBO2 can, especially for a beginner. Even when you have a WBO2 you don't follow it as gospel, you use it as a guide to make sure that nothing changes drastically. Many people will tell you to tune for a certain AFR, which is wrong, every engine will like a different AFR, even two identically built engines will likely respond differently to the same AFR numbers. Tune for what the engine wants, and by that I mean, read plugs, read the exhaust, use your nose, use your butt, USE YOUR SENSES! If the engine is lugging, figure out why, is it a lack of fuel, or a lack of spark advance? Is the engine bucking? Is the exhaust so rich that your eyes are watering? And more like that, use common sense. Most of the adjustments you will need to make will be in the main VE and Spark tables, so concentrate on those two, but don't completely ignore others, like AE, DE, decel settings, and a cou0ple others that will become apparent as you get used to tuning.
Let go back to the basics here...
Just to make sure, when you are tuning, you have selected real time emulation by clicking on the blue square that looks sort of like a computer chip in the tool bar, and a rectangle at the bottom says "emulating", correct? Also you are uploading changes to the Ostrich, by clicking the upload buttons at the top of each table, correct? You have disabled checksum, by changing the MASK byte from "0D" or "0E" to "AA", correct? If you don't disable checksum when you emulate and upload only partial tables or single changes (as happens when you use the 3D maps), then the ECM will go into either full Limp Home Mode, or partial LHM, which will make tuning even more difficult, nigh, impossible.
As far as WBO2 sensors, everyone will give you a different opinion. I;ve used Innovate LC-1, 14point7.com products and AEM (Failsafe gauge). My favorites so far are 14point7.com, the features, reliability and price can't be beat. I'd suggest either the SLC_DIY or SLC_PP2, because they have built in displays, and are complete units, at a great price and offer extra capabilities if you ever feel you need them in the future, like logging extra inputs. They also have native USB connections, so no flaky serial to USB adapters to mess with. Not that you will need to connect to the WBO2 (often), but if you wanted to datalog just what is available to the WBO2 (and it's many optional inputs), then you can easily.
The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.
First I've heard about changing the mask byte to aa... I have the ostrich hooked up I'm emulatin and data logging at the same time... I click the blue icon and emulation is green at the bottom left..
Ok, then I can guarantee you that you ECM is going in to at least partial LHM without changing the mask byte, which will make tuning impossible.
The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.
Jeeze I wish there was a class I could take lol I've never heard of doing that.. how would I do that.. gonna hit it full throttle tom again see if I can get it running past 35 mph without falling flat on its face...
And what does changing it actually do?
Like I said it disables checksum, which is a way for the ECM (or many electronics really) to validate the BIN file and see that it's not corrupt. Changing individual bytes without the checksum being recalculated will cause a failure of the checksum. You might have noticed the truck run rough(ish) and possibly the CEL flicker very dimly when you changed individual tables and uploaded them. It seems that a work around is to upload the entire bin, but it's unnecessary, when taking a few seconds to open up the mask byte and change it to AA disables checksum so emulation will work correctly.
You can hit ctrl+f when TP RT is open and that opens a search box that you can type in any serach parameter you want, try "mask" and that should find teh mask byte, if if it doesn't I'll have to look at the XDF you are using to see what it's been called. When you open it, you should see "0E" as the value, since I believe your bin is an 0E bin. Simply type in "AA" and commit the change and you have disabled checksum. You can change it back when you are done tuning or leave it indefinitely, it will not cause problems with the checksum disabled. Just as a re-assurance, my car has been running for 8 years or so off an Ostrich with the checksum disabled the entire time. ;)
The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.
Thanks so much for your help I was about to dump 700 into a trans controller and throw a carb and hei in it.. will get back at this tom to see what I can do while I'm waiting for the wbo2 to get here then tune it in open loop using the wbo2
One more question (for the night lol) how would one be able to tune in open loop mode when you try to data log it's going to read 128 blms everywhere?
No need to get hasty now, and go the carb route (I feel dirty just typing that lol). :P
If you really wanted you could tune in open loop now, but that could be difficult if you're not sure what to feel or sense (smell, taste, etc). It's what I call a "blind tune", since you're not really using much in the way of visual numbers feed back, and is not easy. I've done it every now and then, but I don't recommend anyone do it, unless you are REALLY in tune (no pun intended there) with the vehicle and know what something wrong feels like and what something right feels like.
Did you order a WBO2 already, or are you still looking at some?
The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.
That's where the WBO2 comes into play, you will see the AFR changing, and you ignore BLM numbers, in fact I almost always ignore BLM numbers, for the actual tuning part, and only use them as a check of the health of the system and the tune.Originally Posted by Jwathen23
It's easiest to have someone else drive when tuning this way, so that you can keep an eye on what is happening and at what point and so ytou can change those cells effectively. You can also get the WBO2 data into the datastream to have the AFR feedback so that you can review later. In your case it is likely an EGR position sensor that is repurposed for AFR readingas and the EGR is disabled during this time, which it probably should be anyway, so that the EGR doesn't effect fueling in anyway way while tuning.
The man who says something is impossible, is usually interrupted by the man doing it.
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