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Thread: new $EE tuning thing!

  1. #811
    Fuel Injected! steveo's Avatar
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    The 'Main' tab is displaying everything and it's all updating as it should be, but no love on the 'dash' view, which I use a lot to monitor my inj PW for economy purposes.
    I have also experienced that bug, please try hard to find a series of steps to reproduce it so I can fix it....

    I bet if you restart eehack it will behave itself again

    it must be a series of events switching tabs and connecting that causes it

  2. #812
    Fuel Injected! steveo's Avatar
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    speaking of econony we should do better. How about we come up with some kind of vss/bpw/map/afgs/whatever calc to represent proportional fuel economy? eehack can query the ecm for injector flow rate too. not necessarily mpg cause that's sketchy but even just an arbitrary unit of measure to compare between tunes and driving styles

  3. #813
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    I have already done some formulas for INStantanious fuel economy when I reworked tunerpro adx file.
    They are valid for stock flow injectors. If bigger injectors are used 24.912 stock flow value must be changed with new injector flow rate.

    Metric formulas:
    __________________________________________________ _________

    fuel flow Grams/second
    (((A+B)/2)*(1/3600000)*(24.912)*(4)*E*(60)*(1))*0.1261
    A=LBPW
    B=RBPW
    E=Engine speed {rpm]

    INSTANTANIOUS fuel economy Liters/100km

    100/(((c+0.1)*1.6092)/((e/720)*3600))
    C=VEHICLE SPEED[mph]
    e=fuel flow grams/second

    I added filter for 0 mph speed to show some reasonable values, but it`s not correct. You can make it switch at zero mph to show Liters or Galons per hour.
    __________________________________________________ ______

    Imperial formulas

    fuel flow GL/HR
    ((A*0.001)*3600)/2.72
    A=fuel flow grams/second

    Instantanious fuel flow Miles/GL
    (A+0.01)/(((0.001*B)*3600)/2.72)

    A=vehcle speed MPH
    B=Fuel flow Grams/hour

    I didn`t come up with formula for average trip fuel economy.

    It will be easily done if we know total distance travel, time of travel and calculate total fuel used since last startup.

    If you can make an interface for calculated values more stuff can be added later. I have more ideas.
    Last edited by kur4o; 07-13-2016 at 03:56 AM.

  4. #814
    Fuel Injected! steveo's Avatar
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    I might do that but in this case I can just hard code it as a special parameter. that will allow it to be graphed. I think I might update the log format. I want to add more connect-time parameters that are stored in the log. If we pull injector size from the bin on connect we have the entire fuel economy equation.

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  7. #817
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    I for one am super excited about any economy parameters you can come up with to display in real time. I've done the formulas and created a mpg gauge in TunerPro RT, but I have 2 issues A) it needs to be smoothed and I don't know how to do that, at the standard update rate, the data is too jumpy to visualize well and B) If I'm using my mpg gauge in TunerPro, that means I am not able to use EEx and I can't do the 'Override AFR' which is a huge windfall in terms of economy.

    Current best commute post M6 swap is 33.5MPG, that's a mix of city driving and highway through mountains maintaining an average speed of 75-80 MPH, 287 miles total.

    Also, in terms of bugs, the no data condition on the dash view did indeed fix itself after restarting EEx. and in terms of repeatability, try opening the flash tab then the datalog tab, or the control tab then the datalog tab, or the 2 combinations of those tabs before opening the datalog tab and I think you'll find the error state.


    ALSO, I discovered something that was contributing to comms dropouts on my particular setup that may or may not be affecting other users and wanted to put it here in case anyone else runs into the same thing...

    Since my commute is longer than my laptop batter can last, I'm using a DC power supply for my laptop that I got off amazon. It of course has (had) the cig lighter adapter on the end, and I had noticed periodic comms issues between the pcm and EEx while logging and plugged into the cig lighter, unplug from the cig lighter, comms issues clear up immediately, so I knew it had something to do with the charger/charging while logging and I only just discovered what the real issue was after cutting of the plug and hardwiring the power supply into the car. When I was seeing the comms issues, it was because the ground portion of the cig lighter adapter wasn't actually grounding. The led on the power supply was still indicating it was operational, but without it being grounded it was disrupting the comms. Additionally, this behavior is probably not unique to my car or my power supply, and may be a big part of the reason why people were having PCM write failures while flashing with their laptops plugged in to the car.

  8. #818
    Fuel Injected! steveo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thatdudeorion View Post
    I for one am super excited about any economy parameters you can come up with to display in real time. I've done the formulas and created a mpg gauge in TunerPro RT, but I have 2 issues A) it needs to be smoothed and I don't know how to do that, at the standard update rate, the data is too jumpy to visualize well and B) If I'm using my mpg gauge in TunerPro, that means I am not able to use EEx and I can't do the 'Override AFR' which is a huge windfall in terms of economy.
    i can smooth 'er out.

    so you're willing to test that feature if i do it?

  9. #819
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    Yeah, absolutely. Testing software is actually part of my job, and I use EEx for approx. 5 hours per day, lol, so it would be a natural fit. I've been testing the manual EGR override and it seems error free thus far.

    As far as the economy stuff goes, right now I mainly look at Inj PW, TPS, and MAP on the dash view, doesn't really tell me anything absolute, but it gives me some cues on whether I should dip out of the throttle a bit, or downshift, or etc. One of the things that's tricky about using InjPW is that it varies in the sense that lets say at 2000 RPM in 5th gear, it's 5.00 then I upshift to 6th and InjPW increases to 6.00 (increase of 20%), which seems bad, in the context of economy, however, it's tied to engine RPM, which drops by ~500 or 25%, so I'm theoretically getting better MPG in those conditions, but it's sort of tough to do that kind of figuring in my head while driving. So something that would help me figure out when best to shift or whether I'm better off lugging it in 6th or downshift to 5th, etc. would be a huge help to me, if I could just quickly change gears back and forth and see what my economy is would be really interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by steveo View Post
    i can smooth 'er out.

    so you're willing to test that feature if i do it?

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  11. #821
    Fuel Injected! steveo's Avatar
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    just a bump, started writing this fuel economy code but not finished yet.

    I've gotten a few emails from y-body users, a few have positive results of the new release, but a few have reported large numbers of errors cropping up; i've asked them to join the forum, hopefully we can figure it out.

  12. #822
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveo View Post
    just a bump, started writing this fuel economy code but not finished yet.
    I'm excited!

  13. #823
    Fuel Injected! 91ss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thatdudeorion View Post
    As far as the economy stuff goes, right now I mainly look at Inj PW, TPS, and MAP on the dash view, doesn't really tell me anything absolute, but it gives me some cues on whether I should dip out of the throttle a bit, or downshift, or etc. One of the things that's tricky about using InjPW is that it varies in the sense that lets say at 2000 RPM in 5th gear, it's 5.00 then I upshift to 6th and InjPW increases to 6.00 (increase of 20%), which seems bad, in the context of economy, however, it's tied to engine RPM, which drops by ~500 or 25%, so I'm theoretically getting better MPG in those conditions, but it's sort of tough to do that kind of figuring in my head while driving. So something that would help me figure out when best to shift or whether I'm better off lugging it in 6th or downshift to 5th, etc. would be a huge help to me, if I could just quickly change gears back and forth and see what my economy is would be really interesting.
    I grappled with similar thoughts trying to use pw as some sort of fuel consumption indicator. The answer you seek is really much simpler, if you maintain one variable constant. That being your fuel ratio. If you maintain closed loop, then you have that constant.

    With that, all you really need to look at is your airflow. It will always be proportional to fuel flow, regardless of rpm and pw. They're all tied together in the fuel calculation barring any acceleration enrichment. The only other airflow contributor that is un-meterred is from EGR. But that is treated essentially as an inert gas and does not increase fuel demand.

    So, you can just watch your MAF values. This wouldn't work in speed density mode of course.

  14. #824
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    Quote Originally Posted by 91ss View Post
    I grappled with similar thoughts trying to use pw as some sort of fuel consumption indicator. The answer you seek is really much simpler, if you maintain one variable constant. That being your fuel ratio. If you maintain closed loop, then you have that constant.

    With that, all you really need to look at is your airflow. It will always be proportional to fuel flow, regardless of rpm and pw. They're all tied together in the fuel calculation barring any acceleration enrichment. The only other airflow contributor that is un-meterred is from EGR. But that is treated essentially as an inert gas and does not increase fuel demand.

    So, you can just watch your MAF values. This wouldn't work in speed density mode of course.
    Interesting, I like that we're getting some good discussion going about economy. I think I understand the basic premise of what you're saying, in that, if the PCM, in closed loop, is always trying to maintain 14.7:1, then for every xx.x g/s of air, it's injecting xx.x/14.7 units of fuel, thus you can use maf airflow as a proxy for economy. However, this won't work for my situation, as I'm spending the vast majority of my drives in OLSD commanding AFR's well in excess of 14.7. I don't know exactly how far in excess of 14.7, but I'm guessing it's up there around 18. Eventually I'll get a WBo2 to verify, but this is my best guess at the moment.

    Oh and also, SteveO and I have discussed EGR a little bit in the past, and I basically coerced him into adding the EGR control to the latest release of $EEx. Thus far, I've tested it, and it appears he is still correct, in the sense that I've had the best fuel consumption results from overriding it to 0% all the time. This doesn't make sense based on the theory of EGR and results that I've seen from other engines on the EcoModder forum, but apparently the LT1 seems to not like EGR. I'm sure it cuts down on NOx or HC or whatever for emissions reasons, but it appears to come at the cost of slightly increased fuel consumption. Though it does seem to reduce knock sensor counts under acceleration...I think...

  15. #825
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    Also, this talk on economy reminds me of another idea I've had lately.

    One tactic that can be employed to decrease fuel consumption is to lower the swing voltage of the O2's from ~450mV (14.7) to something lower, like ~400 assuming it will then get the PCM to effectively command a higher AFR as the target in CL operation. However, we know the issue with narrowband O2's is that they get less sensitive/accurate/non-linear etc. the further the voltage deviates from 450mV.

    In light of this, can we revisit the idea of using WBO2's for each bank and using the NB spoofing feature to feed the PCM?
    The reason I ask is that my understanding of the NB spoofing is that it's a linear formula based on the WB values. My understanding of this is that the spoofed NB value of the WB sensor would then be more accurate in data ranges outside of the traditional narrowband window around 450mV. Does this make sense?

    I recall that SteveO said one of the issues with using NB spoofing is that the data refresh rate from the sensors is slower than that from a traditional NB sensor, which would then decrease overall fueling accuracy. So understanding all of that, is it possible that with the benefit of the CORRCL patches, I may be able to use the WBO2's to ACCURATELY command AFR's well outside of stoich? I mean, I feel like in a perfect world, closed loop is really better, but we have certain limitations placed on us in terms of sensor sensitivity/speed, processor speed, etc. that make OLSD operation better across a wider spectrum of operating conditions, but if perhaps I can work around some of those limitations I may be able to have my cake and eat it too? I know some standalone engine management systems like Motec, Megasquirt, etc. have the ability to do WBO2 closed loop operation, but I don't know how well it works for them, and what I'm trying to do is approximate that functionality in a way, crazy or nah?

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