1985 Caddy Limo - Engine swap with transmission issues

[BlackBettyLimo]

I checked the bin.
On eside part, the data is not defined properly on the current xdf files. It looks like tside is $ee and eside is $eeb or something else.
The point is any change on the eside calibration will have unpredictable result.
The best way will be to start with the latest bin for your application. Based on tis2web, your starter bin will have p/n 16200271.
Unfortunatelly I could`n find it anywhere, so we need to pick you another bin similar to your application.

Can you please post your final gear ratio and tire size so I can make you a suggestion.

thanks for checking it out! I have to apologize and advance as the vocabulary is starting to get a bit over my head. I'll have to look up eside and tside so I can track this conversation.

Rear gear should be 3.42

Tires are 28" (235/75R15)

[BlackBettyLimo]

I checked the bin.
On eside part, the data is not defined properly on the current xdf files. It looks like tside is $ee and eside is $eeb or something else.
The point is any change on the eside calibration will have unpredictable result.
The best way will be to start with the latest bin for your application. Based on tis2web, your starter bin will have p/n 16200271.
Unfortunatelly I could`n find it anywhere, so we need to pick you another bin similar to your application.

Can you please post your final gear ratio and tire size so I can make you a suggestion.

Per the site (at bottom of page) : http://fbodytech.com/bin/index.html


16200271 may have been superseded by 16230201?

[kur4o]

You can try with this bin, should be a close match.
I turned off vats, so it`s ready for burning.
If it corrects your problem other stuff can be done later.

How do you measure the 5volt on knock sensor circuit with sensor attached or with the sensor disconnected.
It will read 5 volts only if it is disconnected and ignition must be turned on.

[kur4o]

Per the site (at bottom of page) : http://fbodytech.com/bin/index.html


16200271 may have been superseded by 16230201?

You`r right 16200271 is your current bin and 16230201 is the latest bin based on the vin number.
16230201 is not available online also.

[BlackBettyLimo]

You can try with this bin, should be a close match.
I turned off vats, so it`s ready for burning.
If it corrects your problem other stuff can be done later.

How do you measure the 5volt on knock sensor circuit with sensor attached or with the sensor disconnected.
It will read 5 volts only if it is disconnected and ignition must be turned on.

Thanks for the bin! I'll try to get out there in the next day or two and give it a go.

I followed the diagnostics for the knock sensor in the attached PDFs a few posts up.
I tested each sensor for resistance, and they checked out.
I ohm tested all the wires with both ends detached (at PCM and at knock sensor).
I tested for voltage at the knock sensor connectors with PCM plug connected and key on, there was no voltage present. With connectors at knock sensors detached, and connector attached to PCM, I stuck a wire through the backside of the PCM connector and tested for voltage with key on, no voltage found.
I unplugged the same PCM connector and tested the pin directly in PCM with key on, and there was no voltage found.

Unless it is some sort of bin related issue, it seems that circuit is dead within the PCM?

[BlackBettyLimo]

You`r right 16200271 is your current bin and 16230201 is the latest bin based on the vin number.
16230201 is not available online also.

Thanks for clarification, I'll post on a few other forums and see if there's a shot at finding it.

I couldn't find anything online regarding eside and tside. If it's not a pain, can you give me a short description of what those two sides of the bin file represent?

[kur4o]

As you know PCM has two flash chips 64kb each. BIN is split between the two chips. Each chip has its own operating system, cal data and processor. Like two separate computers in one box.
Eside chip is responsible mainly for engine operation, Tside for transmission operation.
I hope that makes it a little more clear.

It is bad you don`t have 5v ref on the PCM knock circuit. It could be due to flash, or the PCM might have internal problems and needs replacement.
You can try flash the bin I posted and if there is no improvement look for another PCM.

[lionelhutz]

That tune appears to be $EEB on the engine side but its just plain hosed in the transmission tables. Neither $EE or $EEB shows transmission data that makes any sense. The 1-2 shifting is 30mph with no throttle and just goes higher as the %tps increases. No wonder it wouldn't shift.

You could try Steve's Robotune to create a tune to match what you have.

http://fbodytech.com/index.html

Read the rest of Steve's info because its good stuff. The CPP disabling has to be done right or you hurt proper BLM operation.

[BlackBettyLimo]

As you know PCM has two flash chips 64kb each. BIN is split between the two chips. Each chip has its own operating system, cal data and processor. Like two separate computers in one box.
Eside chip is responsible mainly for engine operation, Tside for transmission operation.
I hope that makes it a little more clear.

It is bad you don`t have 5v ref on the PCM knock circuit. It could be due to flash, or the PCM might have internal problems and needs replacement.
You can try flash the bin I posted and if there is no improvement look for another PCM.

Thanks for the quick primer, that's very helpful info. I wasn't aware of the two separate chipsets, etc.

[BlackBettyLimo]

That tune appears to be $EEB on the engine side but its just plain hosed in the transmission tables. Neither $EE or $EEB shows transmission data that makes any sense. The 1-2 shifting is 30mph with no throttle and just goes higher as the %tps increases. No wonder it wouldn't shift.

You could try Steve's Robotune to create a tune to match what you have.

http://fbodytech.com/index.html

Read the rest of Steve's info because its good stuff. The CPP disabling has to be done right or you hurt proper BLM operation.

Thanks for taking a look. I wonder where the file got hosed in the process. I sent him the PCM for the initial flash (VAT removal etc), then sent it back to him confirm his work when I found the shifting issue. He did tell me he made a 2nd adjust to the bin (tire and rear gear) and re-flashed it. He swears he pulls the OEM bin and only makes the basic deletions (and uses $EE). Odd.

I'll take a look at Steve's site, looks interesting. The ran the robot tune and it suggested bin 16210011. Hard for me to tell what the differences are from my base file. If I wanted to take a look at the bin file myself and start learning some of this stuff, would I use TunerCat (OBD1 Tuner) and purchase the $EE definition file? Or do I need GM Tech1 tools to delete VAT, AC, etc.

I've only played with VE, Advance and O2 tables when I had my Electromotive Tec II for my other project car, but this GM stuff gets in to the technical weeds pretty fast!

I googled CPP and it seems to apply to a clutch switch? Is this related to TCC or a manual transmission? (or did you mean CCP?)

Sorry, lot's of technical blindspots here, but I'm trying to get up to speed quickly.

[BlackBettyLimo]

Update: I just found a '94 Roadmaster PCM on eBay and bought it. Ha, I'm finally running out of patience (It's a 2 hour drive round trip every time I go work on the car) and that knock sensor circuit is on my mind.

Brad from Garret Tuning is the eBay seller and mentioned he's a member here. I'll download the stock bin and donate it to the database of clean OEM files before I modify it.

It would be interesting to do a bin compare with my current file and see just how hosed it is.

For grins, I'll try uploading the bin Kur4o supplied to my existing PCM if I can get to the car in the next few days.

[lionelhutz]

Sorry, CCP.

I used CATS to view it using both the $EE and $EEB definitions.

On Steve's site the second thing down is a $EE Tunerpro definition file. You can use it with Tunerpro. A small tip, In the left side parameter tree box chose Parameter Category from the drop-down. Part of Steve's work was to categorize the parameters so you want to use that view. This only does $EE so you can't look at your bin right but check out the normal mode up/down shift points because that table was similar in both $EE and $EEB. You can see how the 1-2 shift only happens at a high speed.

This thread does have a $EEB definition for Tunerpro but I have no idea how good it is since I have no need to use it.

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...rmation-EE-EEB

[BlackBettyLimo]

You can try with this bin, should be a close match.
I turned off vats, so it`s ready for burning.
If it corrects your problem other stuff can be done later.

Hey kur4o, I'm sure this is somehow user error on my end since I'm just wrapping my head around TunerPro, but I just opened your bin file (using Steve's EE definition file) and I'm seeing the Flags "VATS Enable" and "VATS Diagnostic (Error 46)" as still being "set." i.e. The check box is checked.

Am I reading that right?

[BlackBettyLimo]

Sorry, CCP.

I used CATS to view it using both the $EE and $EEB definitions.

On Steve's site the second thing down is a $EE Tunerpro definition file. You can use it with Tunerpro. A small tip, In the left side parameter tree box chose Parameter Category from the drop-down. Part of Steve's work was to categorize the parameters so you want to use that view. This only does $EE so you can't look at your bin right but check out the normal mode up/down shift points because that table was similar in both $EE and $EEB. You can see how the 1-2 shift only happens at a high speed.

This thread does have a $EEB definition for Tunerpro but I have no idea how good it is since I have no need to use it.

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...rmation-EE-EEB

I downloaded Steve's EE file and I believe I was able to fully open my bin in Tuner Pro. I see what you're talking about. The other bin Kur4o supplied seem to have much more reasonable data values in that table.

How did you determine that the eside and tside data may be $EEB? Is that something I can view in TunerPro? Does that involve the bin stacker/ splitter feature?

[lionelhutz]

Check Injector flow rate which should be around 24lb/hr and cylinder volume which should be 717ml/cylinder for a 350. I can't recall offhand, but one shows as 0 when you open an $EEB bin using a $EE definition. I think the other one also shows too high a number.