Stock TBI 350 with Headers

**Kitch** · 07-23-2015

I've followed the tutorial and have smoothed the Open throttle VE table. I then disabled EGR, PE, DE and DFCO, is there anything else I should do before data logging?
Should I tweak the spark advance before or after I've worked on the VE table and data logged? I'm assuming if it's after I would need to redo the VE table again?

**Fast355** · 07-23-2015

Originally Posted by Kitch

I've followed the tutorial and have smoothed the Open throttle VE table. I then disabled EGR, PE, DE and DFCO, is there anything else I should do before data logging?
Should I tweak the spark advance before or after I've worked on the VE table and data logged? I'm assuming if it's after I would need to redo the VE table again?

Anytime you tweak one you are going to have to go back and tweak the other. I personally do timing then fuel.

**Kitch** · 07-24-2015

Spark map smoothed and loaded, I'll data log tomorrow.

One thing that we picked up on the dyno was how restrictive the stock air cleaner assembly appeared be.
As shown at the start of this post I had locked the hot air intake flap inside the factory air cleaner open so that only cool intake air would get to the air filter.

I had dropped my van off at the workshop in the morning and hung around to help them if they had any issues connecting to the APU1 and they did, it wasn't the sort of vehicle they were used to working on and they gave up on the APU1 and connected up there own Ostrich.
I asked the dyno operator to give me a call when it was ready to make a few runs and I'd come back and have a look.
I had a phone call from the dyno operator asking me how much HP I thought the van would make, I said anything above 170 would be okay he said it was only making 165 but something was strange going on because the motor would just falling on it's face above 3500 RPM.

I headed over to see what was going on, he showed me on the computer screen the initial runs he had made and you could see the HP curve just keel over after 3500.
While I was there he decided to take the lid off the air cleaner assembly and try another run, we were both surprised to see the HP jump up by 13 to 178.
After that run he then put the lid back on and sure enough back down to 163HP. I suggested we disconnect the factory duct supplying fresh air from the front of the van to the air cleaner to see if there was a restriction caused by that but another run revealed not much difference, still around the 167 mark.

So at that point I suggested the old air cleaner lid flip trick to see if the air filter was the problem and the HP came up near 176 HP, one more run with the lid back on correctly to confirm the air cleaner was the problem and sure enough the HP dropped back down again.
At that point it appeared clear that the factory air cleaner assembly was costing 13 HP, with no other changes you could watch the AFR drop to 10:1@ 4500 RPM with the air cleaner lid on and jump to 12.3:1 with the lid off.
Not wanting to give up on the cool air provided by the duct running from the front of the van but having to conceded that something needed to change, I took the air cleaner assembly home and within ten minutes with a holesaw and an air nibbler modified it to let some more air in but still have a little cool air flowing towards the filter.
I dropped it off the next morning with the dyno operator and he reported when he later made a run with it on the HP levels were back up to levels with no lid on.
The improvements made from 176HP to 196HP were then made from basic chip tuning.

**Fast355** · 07-24-2015

Originally Posted by Kitch

Spark map smoothed and loaded, I'll data log tomorrow.

One thing that we picked up on the dyno was how restrictive the stock air cleaner assembly appeared be.
As shown at the start of this post I had locked the hot air intake flap inside the factory air cleaner open so that only cool intake air would get to the air filter.

I had dropped my van off at the workshop in the morning and hung around to help them if they had any issues connecting to the APU1 and they did, it wasn't the sort of vehicle they were used to working on and they gave up on the APU1 and connected up there own Ostrich.
I asked the dyno operator to give me a call when it was ready to make a few runs and I'd come back and have a look.
I had a phone call from the dyno operator asking me how much HP I thought the van would make, I said anything above 170 would be okay he said it was only making 165 but something was strange going on because the motor would just falling on it's face above 3500 RPM.

I headed over to see what was going on, he showed me on the computer screen the initial runs he had made and you could see the HP curve just keel over after 3500.
While I was there he decided to take the lid off the air cleaner assembly and try another run, we were both surprised to see the HP jump up by 13 to 178.
After that run he then put the lid back on and sure enough back down to 163HP. I suggested we disconnect the factory duct supplying fresh air from the front of the van to the air cleaner to see if there was a restriction caused by that but another run revealed not much difference, still around the 167 mark.

So at that point I suggested the old air cleaner lid flip trick to see if the air filter was the problem and the HP came up near 176 HP, one more run with the lid back on correctly to confirm the air cleaner was the problem and sure enough the HP dropped back down again.
At that point it appeared clear that the factory air cleaner assembly was costing 13 HP, with no other changes you could watch the AFR drop to 10:1@ 4500 RPM with the air cleaner lid on and jump to 12.3:1 with the lid off.
Not wanting to give up on the cool air provided by the duct running from the front of the van but having to conceded that something needed to change, I took the air cleaner assembly home and within ten minutes with a holesaw and an air nibbler modified it to let some more air in but still have a little cool air flowing towards the filter.
I dropped it off the next morning with the dyno operator and he reported when he later made a run with it on the HP levels were back up to levels with no lid on.
The improvements made from 176HP to 196HP were then made from basic chip tuning.

I used the air cleaner and ducting from a 454 van on my old 350 G20. Built in powerbowl from the factory and oversized ducting all the way through the radiator core support. I grabbed the 454s core support at the junkyard too.

**Rally Smith** · 07-25-2015

Originally Posted by Fast355

I also find it odd they did nothing below 1,600 rpm. With a torque converter that stalls probably under that you probably have some nice throttle response and low end power gains to be realized. Try bringing those 0-1,000 rpm cells up to about 8-10° and smooth over to the idle area. I have run as much as 14° on a stock TBI at 800 rpm and 100 kpa without tip-in knock and they jump to life when you hit the go pedal.

I don't mean to hijack this but, a question for you Fast. When you say, "as much as 14* on a stock tbi" is that at the distributor with the wire unplugged or just in the Spark Table?

Thanks,

again sorry for the interruption.

**Fast355** · 07-25-2015

Originally Posted by Rally Smith

I don't mean to hijack this but, a question for you Fast. When you say, "as much as 14* on a stock tbi" is that at the distributor with the wire unplugged or just in the Spark Table?

Thanks,

again sorry for the interruption.

In the low rpm/high map area of the spark table. I have run the distributer as much as 8-10° on stock engines on 91-93 octane fuel and 160-170°F thermostats. Not both at the same time however.

**Kitch** · 07-25-2015

Working through the adjusting VE fueling tables with BLM data tutorial, it asks to "open your spreadsheet to the correct mask ID" but I only seem to have a "$42 VE correction table" tab not a $OD?
The spreadsheet states correction table E6~OD~OE~31 at the top but the tab down the bottom only shows $42, do I need to change it or is $42 okay?

I've entered all the data in the spreadsheet and I can see the automatic changes in the correction factors but nothing has happened to the values in the VE table, how do I make the spreadsheet apply those changes?

**Fast355** · 07-25-2015

Originally Posted by Kitch

Working through the adjusting VE fueling tables with BLM data tutorial, it asks to "open your spreadsheet to the correct mask ID" but I only seem to have a "$42 VE correction table" tab not a $OD?
The spreadsheet states correction table E6~OD~OE~31 at the top but the tab down the bottom only shows $42, do I need to change it or is $42 okay?

I've entered all the data in the spreadsheet and I can see the automatic changes in the correction factors but nothing has happened to the values in the VE table, how do I make the spreadsheet apply those changes?

You need to copy the ECMs VE table into the spreadsheet and paste the end result into the VE table in the PCM.

$42 and $OD are completely different. Can you screenshot what you are talking about with the tabs and post it up?

**myburb** · 07-25-2015

I have the same thing. Three tabs, $42, on idle, off idle. The $42 just goes to 3200 rpm. I just use the other two but think the math in them all is the same. My spreadsheet laptop battery just died so I can't check that.

**Kitch** · 07-26-2015

Hi Fast,
Thanks for your help with this.

I've attched three images one of the VE correction table I downloaded and the other of my excel spreadsheet, I'm using the "Off Idle" table.
In the tutorial it shows a few different mask ID's in tabs along the bottom of the screen but that's not what I get on my spreadsheet?

At this stage I've cut and pasted my VE table to where it says to "insert off idle VE table from TunerPro here" and after a bit of playing around cut and pasted indivdual columns into the "insert BLM off idle running average here" (there were more cloumns in the TunerPro history table and less in the spreadsheet so cut and paste for the whole table wouldn't work). It must have been late last night because I can now see the changes in the "Insert new" tables.

Whats the difference between the "with averaged BLM table and the "without averaged BLM table"? The values in my "without averaged" table seem higher.

**CFI Z51** · 07-26-2015

Kitch
in the spread sheet i posted below go to the $0D-$0E tab, paste the blm (running average) history table from your adx in lines 5-20
paste your ve table from the bin / XDF(under BPW parameters - VE.. in Advanced $0D TP5 v250) in lines 41-56
then paste the corrected VE (averaged = smoothed ) data from lines 77-92 into the ve table in your bin..

hope this helps...

**Kitch** · 07-26-2015

CFI
That's exactly what I was looking for, maybe one of the mods might like to put your TBI calculator in $OD tuner info where I found the other spreadsheet.

I'm still not sure what's the main reasons for using the coarse or the fine tables? Should I start with coarse and smooth it or just go straight to to fine?

My BLM were quite lean at W.O.T. in the 80-100 kPA ranges and I see how the spread sheet will help correct that but when I turn PE back on will it then make my newly corrected BLM's go rich at W.O.T?

**Fast355** · 07-27-2015

Originally Posted by Kitch

CFI
That's exactly what I was looking for, maybe one of the mods might like to put your TBI calculator in $OD tuner info where I found the other spreadsheet.

I'm still not sure what's the main reasons for using the coarse or the fine tables? Should I start with coarse and smooth it or just go straight to to fine?

My BLM were quite lean at W.O.T. in the 80-100 kPA ranges and I see how the spread sheet will help correct that but when I turn PE back on will it then make my newly corrected BLM's go rich at W.O.T?

You would want to start coarse, it will make bigger changes more quickly, then fine tune with fine. You want your BLMs to be a touch on the rich side. Target 124-128 values. When you re-enable PE your fuel mixture will richen up for WOT.

**CFI Z51** · 07-27-2015

Glad to help

,i take no credit for the spreadsheet ,it was made by dave w@oldshool efi, found it here, this site is full of hidden gems

**dave w** · 07-27-2015

I've developed a new spreadsheet to tune the '7427 PCM.

The new spreadsheet is located here: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...D-31-OE-and-E6

The "Averageif" function in Excel allow an exported data log .csv file to be pasted into the spreadsheet. The "Averageif" function can be used to average near idle data when the idle flag is active, average data when closed loop is active, average when PE is active and other tuning data like WBO2. The history tables in TunerPro RT does not filter the data like the "Averageif" spreadsheet can do. The posted "Averageif" spreadsheet is not the final version I've developed. I posted the "Averageif" spreadsheet to help others develop their own "Averageif" spreadsheet.

dave w