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Thread: LQ4 Power

  1. #16
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    And please don't get me wrong guys, I LOVE the LS and the modern "HEMI" engines in CARS. But I will keep the traditional, larger cubic inch "GRUNT" engines in my trucks.

  2. #17
    I guess I need to post more LS stuff, it really brings out the posts. LOL

    I'm not biased, I'll make run what ever I am paid to. Right now these are very popular and cheaper to build for the END CUSTOMER.... I say that because everyone on this board is a DIY person and not a hands off end customer. You really have to compare costs that way.

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Fast355 View Post
    And please don't get me wrong guys, I LOVE the LS and the modern "HEMI" engines in CARS. But I will keep the traditional, larger cubic inch "GRUNT" engines in my trucks.
    No doubt. I just sold my roller 383 I have had in my 73 pickup for 7 years. I cried a little.....

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skinny Pedal View Post
    I guess I need to post more LS stuff, it really brings out the posts. LOL

    I'm not biased, I'll make run what ever I am paid to. Right now these are very popular and cheaper to build for the END CUSTOMER.... I say that because everyone on this board is a DIY person and not a hands off end customer. You really have to compare costs that way.
    Exactly, I had two different Titans because I work for a Nissan dealership. I was amazed at the power I was able to get out of the stock engine with only intake/exhaust/tuning. There are MANY good running engines on the market these days but cracking open a few HotRod magazines from 1968-1970 the other day, some of those old cars would really run with a few tweaks and changes too. Like a ~500 hp NA 340 Mopar.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast355 View Post
    My 350 outguns this 6.0L everywhere under 5,000 rpm....
    Towing 8500lbs behind a full size van and getting 13mpg while running 2800rpm @ 65mph? I find that hard to believe. A "cheap" 350 built for towing that can make over 425ft-lbs of torque at 3k rpm and over 460 ft-lbs of torque at 4.5k rpm? I find that ridiculously hard to believe.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by lionelhutz View Post
    Towing 8500lbs behind a full size van and getting 13mpg while running 2800rpm @ 65mph? I find that hard to believe. A "cheap" 350 built for towing that can make over 425ft-lbs of torque at 3k rpm and over 460 ft-lbs of torque at 4.5k rpm? I find that ridiculously hard to believe.
    I put down 370 RWHP on a Mustang dyno through a 4L80E and GM 9.5" 14-bolt. I put down 340 RWTQ at only 3,000 rpm with a locked converter and peaked about 370 RWTQ at 4,500 rpm. At only 2,400 rpm it was already putting down 330 RWTQ. A 355 TPI engine with production vortecs and a 210/220 cam put down 490 ft/lbs at peak and over 400 from 2,600 and beyond.

    As for the MPG, thats what it gets towing on flat land with no winds and I have pulled down 18+ running empty Do not run EGR either.

    Its a stock 1-ton GM crate 350 shortblock
    Edelbrock Etec 170cc heads
    271/276 @.006, 215/220 @ .050, .534/.547" lift, 114* LSA Comp cam installed at 110* ICL. Crane Gold 1.6:1 SA roller rockers
    Ported L31 Marine intake with an 85mm LS1 TB and 85mm maf into a stock Express airbox
    0411 PCM running HP Tuners MAF Enhanced operating system
    Doug Thorley Tri-y headers into 3" Thorley headpipes, reduced to 2.75" mandrel bent piping into 2.5" Thunderbolt cats and a dual in/single out Walker Dynomax bus muffler with a 3" mandrel bent tail pipe
    454 radiator with factory oil cooler, duramax fan on a trailblazer ss fan clutch, Napa 200a AD-244 alternator, Racetronix fuel pump hotwire, March 4490 Underdrive pulleys. Runs a 4L80E with a B82 factory high stall converter and a 3.73 geared 9.5" 14-bolt out of a 6-lug 2500 Express.
    Last edited by Fast355; 07-01-2015 at 08:00 PM.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skinny Pedal View Post
    I am very excited to see the L92 cam I have designed in a 408 stroker.
    When you design a lobe, do you run all the math by hand to come up with your lift curve, velocity and acceleration rates, or do you use computer software? Have you ever tested your designs on a Spintron to verify stability? Who develops your masters and does your cam grinding?

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast355 View Post
    A 355 TPI engine with production vortecs and a 210/220 cam put down 490 ft/lbs at peak and over 400 from 2,600 and beyond.
    Your results again are very impressive. Regardless of the combination of parts, a 355 making 490 ft/lbs at the flywheel will require volumetric efficiency approaching 120 percent. And you accomplished that with production heads and a small street cam. Professionals building state of the art race engines strive to achieve results like these. Great work indeed!

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadknee View Post
    Your results again are very impressive. Regardless of the combination of parts, a 355 making 490 ft/lbs at the flywheel will require volumetric efficiency approaching 120 percent. And you accomplished that with production heads and a small street cam. Professionals building state of the art race engines strive to achieve results like these. Great work indeed!
    That one was not mine, check out Something New Something Old by GM High Tech. I had a very similarly built 383 TPI in my 1983 G20 that put down 430 RWTQ.

  10. #25
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    Yes, that's making unbelievable power for sure. It took Super Chevy 28 build combinations in their danger mouse series to come up with very similar power as this LS engine and it required 40 thou more lift and 20 degrees more duration in their cam choice compared to yours. But, they also did it with the E-tec 170 heads which definitely are a really good head choice. Their torque started dropping like a rock below 3k rpm and was below 350 ft-lbs at the crank by 2600 rpm. If their torque continued to drop like the graph was showing then their engine certainly wouldn't be any better in the low end compared to the LS engine in this thread.

    So, it's really impressive you came up with a combo that makes what, another 60-80 ft-lbs at 2400rpmthan SC managed and also beats their build all the way to 5k all while using a more tow friendly smaller cam.

    In other words, your engine outgunning this LS engine all the way to 5k is still rather unbelievable.Your smaller cam should help the torque below 3k rpm but no way are you beating this LS engines torque all the way to 5k rpm.

    http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/pro...block-part-28/

    As for the TPI engine - full block work align honed, decked etc lighter pistons with 6" rods, ported heads, ported intake, ported runners, larger throttle body. Someone who knew what they were doing worked over the heads to get the flow numbers they got. You casually write the numbers as if it was a off the shelf Vortec and TPI build, but it was really an all-out build with very few expenses spared.
    Last edited by lionelhutz; 07-01-2015 at 09:49 PM.

  11. #26
    I love how this turned into a total apples and oranges debate. These engines being compared aren't even in the same ball park with budget or parts. Again, this is not a built engine. This is a JUNK YARD engine.

    You are telling me you could take a PRODUCTION TPI 350 with 125k plus miles on it, put a cam in it, and destroy this engine? No way. Look at the length of the parts list and COST to make it beat this. Not to mention the 0411 ECM and other LS parts used... LOL

    Considering this is Gearhead.... We all have a pretty good idea on the cost associated with making power like that in a SBC. Its WELL over 3k. Without dyno time I'm in this 2.4k. Then look at what it did without the new cam.... Subtract estimated value of cam kit. That puts a 419hp 444lb-ft engine at well under 2k.
    Last edited by Skinny Pedal; 07-01-2015 at 11:43 PM.

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Roadknee View Post
    When you design a lobe, do you run all the math by hand to come up with your lift curve, velocity and acceleration rates, or do you use computer software? Have you ever tested your designs on a Spintron to verify stability? Who develops your masters and does your cam grinding?
    Math is by hand based on theoretical flow and actual head flow, followed by a double check from a good friend. Lopes are designed with velocity in mind first, followed by valve acceleration and cyl pressure. For grinding and masters I hand over the math and ideas to someone much more advanced than me. :) Would rather not name. Needless to say he has been around.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skinny Pedal View Post
    I love how this turned into a total apples and oranges debate. These engines being compared aren't even in the same ball park with budget or parts. Again, this is not a built engine. This is a JUNK YARD engine.

    You are telling me you could take a PRODUCTION TPI 350 with 125k plus miles on it, put a cam in it, and destroy this engine? No way. Look at the length of the parts list and COST to make it beat this. Not to mention the 0411 ECM and other LS parts used... LOL

    Considering this is Gearhead.... We all have a pretty good idea on the cost associated with making power like that in a SBC. Its WELL over 3k. Without dyno time I'm in this 2.4k. Then look at what it did without the new cam.... Subtract estimated value of cam kit. That puts a 419hp 444lb-ft engine at well under 2k.
    Its still going to cost you a grand to swap that into a car and get it running. Not to mention to put down that kind of power and hold it you are going to need most of my parts list anyway. Cooling system, headers, cats, exhaust piping, muffler. My exhaust 2.75" mandrel bends are literally pieces of cut up GM truck tailpipes.



    350 TPI Vortec with a cam and Acell runners will run this 6.0L all day long from idle to ~5k.

    http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/061...k/viewall.html

    0411 PCM was $50 at the junkyard and cost me $100 to license and $100 to convert to real time tuning capable operating system. LS engine is going to require tuning as well.



    Last edited by Fast355; 07-02-2015 at 05:36 AM.

  14. #29
    Apples and oranges, I'm sorry I tried to vary the tech here. It won't happen again.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skinny Pedal View Post
    Apples and oranges, I'm sorry I tried to vary the tech here. It won't happen again.
    Maybe next time bring a no expense spared LS engine to the party? I bet there was $2-3K spent on machining and porting that TPI engine's top-end alone. But it beats a junkyard pulled LQ4 with a cam and intake swap....

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