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Thread: Anyone worked with the 16196397 yet?

  1. #76
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    Hmmm, think there is a calibration for a late series II 3800SC in the archives here? I'd love to be able to kick the fueling table up by 1.1 and wire the bypass open on the supercharger to get the flat-tappet cam broken in without errors-that's the biggest worry with a completely new engine build. For a flat-tappet, the really critical bit is getting it to light off and run at least 2000RPM for 20 minutes without washing down the cylinder walls with too much fuel, and not having to crank it over more than once or twice to get it to light off and run-the least amount of cranking needed means the largest amount of assembly lube left on the cam lobes to keep them safe until they're burnished in. If you really have to crank it over a lot before it fires off, the chance of reduced ring sealing or worse still a flat cam lobe goes up exponentially.

    I'm thinking I need to figure out what I'd need to change for a 260ish-degree cam, the 3400cc displacement vs 3100cc displacement, and the L67 injectors, make my best guesses for those, and then I'd feel safe about cranking it up.

  2. #77
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    should be in the OBD2 BIN section.... I know I've uploaded quite a few. I use tinytuner to grab the data from them.
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


  3. #78
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    Ok, so I've gotten started on the programming here. I'm totally confused, the file naming conventions are...interesting.

    I am wanting to start with the 1995 3100 beretta program, since I believe it will be closer to the end result than starting with the 3.4L F-body program. From there, I want to make the changes talked about early in this thread, then post 'em up and see if they're ballpark-correct.

    The ECM to be used is a 16196397 BKRL. This was pulled from an apparently modified Beretta, with a 3100 engine and a manual transmission. God knows where it started out from.

    Looking through the P66 BIN files from the thread for this PCM, I've found the Rev3 L-body folder, and have file names such as:

    16230734B 94 L original FDR export lying speedometer.bin
    16227354 95 L.bin
    Others with similar structure.

    Now, I belive the 162... number denotes the service tag? If so, my service tag isn't listed. Which of these bins should I choose to start with? Any? I have poked around in the "95 L.bin" file for now. I've got it patched with the two patches from the Boosted XDF.

    Next, I need to open up a 96+ L67 calibration file and pull the injector data from it. I imagine I'll need an OBDII program to open up the calibration, hunt down the injector data, and then re-work the injector data to work in the OBD1 computer. What program to open the cal, and what parts of the injector data do I need?
    Last edited by Xnke; 09-16-2015 at 03:30 PM.

  4. #79
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    oddly enough, GM has assigned multiple part numbers for what could be the same item... the part number on the sticker is different from the part number stored in both the E-side and T-side calibrations..... there's no real reason to it that I'm aware of. you would need to pull the calibration(or grab it over one of the ALDL streams) to see if it matches any in the archive.

    the patches are integrated into tunerpro itself.... I could never get a hang of the S19 method, so when Mark implemented in the ability to have patches as an XDF item, I went that route. applying them is as simple as opening them and clicking Apply Patch. if you click F2 on one of the patches, you'll be able to see where in the BIN that bytes are being changed.

    I use tinytuner to grab that kind of info.

    http://theblattners.com/Projects/TinyTuner/default.html

    get the most updated database as well.

    then, just grab one of the appropriate BINs that were uploaded in the OBD2 BIN section(they're labeled by application) and you'll be able to find injector offsets among a wealth of other info. be aware that the P66 V6 low-PW offset table is kind of ridiculous.... I've never seen that done before or since, but it works exactly how it looks, I would write an excel function to interpolate the values that come from the OBD2 calibration, otherwise you'll be spending a lot of time doing manual math(or adjusting them in the table view).
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


  5. #80
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    There is a crapload of stuff in there to fiddle with...

    Spent three hours in there and only just found the injector stuff. Gonna be either a joy to tune up and drive, or absolute misery.

    Looks like the L67 bin has low pulsewidth offset vs MAP, but the P66 bin doesn't care about MAP...how to handle that? is the P66 code assuming 100kpa or something?
    Last edited by Xnke; 09-17-2015 at 08:54 AM.

  6. #81
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    Putting together a cheap and nasty "Flash Harness" that I can plug up these ECMs, plug in the ALDL cable, and pull/push BIN files with and twiddle some input lines to see if I can get A28 to log a wideband input. Hopefully this will help me get a working, running ECM and bin file to start with by the time I've got the rest of the engine built.

    Just ordered valve springs this week, so maybe the cam will get reground next week. After that it's headers, then fuel pump. I am gonna modify the F-body oil pan to fit the truck, and fit a proper windage tray to the pan.

    Maybe december/february I'll be ready to start transplanting this thing, we'll see.

  7. #82
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    considering the fuel pressure regulator should be setup for a 1:1 rise with manifold pressure, it shouldn't have any noticeable effect... some L67(and L32) BINs are showing a change with MAP, others aren't.... kind of confusing. it should really only matter with a constant rail pressure designs. I would use the 100kPa values in any case.
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


  8. #83
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    I'm going through the pinouts and wiring diagrams for the 1994 Camaro wiring harness (what I have) and am finding pins that are in the harness going to the ECU that are NOT listed on the diagram...I have no idea what these wires do. I'm making a list of them, when I get it finished I'll see if I can post it up here for others to look at. .

    That was the plan, using just the 100kPa values. I should have that stuff worked out tomorrow, along with these wiring pinouts. Ideally, I'll have pin A28 working and twiddly so I can work out if it can be used to log the 0-5V input.

  9. #84
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    i have a spreadsheet of what I'm referring to as "the" p66 v6 pinout.... I basically combined all of the p66 v6 applications into a single sheet and have them cross-referenced by application. it's been useful at times, like defining a/d inputs and outputs in the code that were otherwise unused in my application...

    you may find some use to it.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


  10. #85
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    That list covered most of the other wires. I'm still curious as to a few of them but mostly as possibilities for use with the intercooler system-Could I use Trans Fluid Temp to toggle TCC Control into an ON/OFF state, therefore allowing me to cycle the intercooler water pump based on intercooler water temperature?

    What's more, if I CAN do something similar, that makes this a very powerful unit indeed-There are a lot of inputs/outputs that could be repurposed.

  11. #86
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    hmm..... with both of those being on the T-side, not really able to patch in that kind of a function. might be able to abuse the existing calibration items to do it though.

    alternatively.... the a/c temp sensor(only ever used on f-body calibrations) is on the e-side and is also already setup with a pullup to 5V, and would be otherwise unused for your application. most of the existing code concerning it could be kept as-is. you have a couple outputs you could choose from on the e-side as well, depending on what equipment you plan to keep on the engine. E-side controls:

    all 3 EGR solenoids
    a/c clutch
    CCP
    AIR pump
    and an unused circuit on quad-driver U34, should control pin B5.
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


  12. #87
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    just now have time to crack open my actual 6397.... there are a few differences going on compared to the 93 3.1/3.4 unit. a resistor missing/added here and there and even changes to the board itself. i'll need to check this out a bit further and make sure nothing too critical changed.

    the same ICs all around(some part number changes at times.... same apparent function at least), i'll try and summarize the changes I see. red implies something was removed on the 6397 compared to the 93 unit, green is added.

    E:
    2: a pair of missing resistors, both part of the same circuit. 1 added resistor, a 10K pulling something up to 5V.
    3: underside of large, 110 ohm resistor that was moved slightly.
    4: showing 2 again, but now with a couple of caps/resistors removed from the connectors. also to the right are the addition of some solder pads, but they're not populated on this board....
    5: a pair of resistors and a cap(all part of the same circuit) removed.
    6: removed diode
    7: showing where the resistor was moved to.
    8: 3 resistors and a cap(same circuit), all removed.

    T:
    1: removed cap from connector, a pair of resistors(same circuit), removed. the cap they connect to on 3 is changed to a shorting link as well.
    2: pair of connector caps removed.
    3: showing where the changes noted from 1 continue.
    5: these two components(fairly certain they're diodes) are removed. the upper was used for pin B17(unused AFAIK), lower for pin B5. pin B5 still appears to be connected everything otherwise, so it is still capable of being used, but it doesn't have what I'm thinking is a flyback diode to protect it should it be used to drive a relay or solenoid without a flyback diode integrated into them. they have a "4801" marking on them, but I don't think they're a 1N4801...
    6: we lose quite a few diodes... they don't appear to cause any loss of function, seems like they were more for circuit protection than anything else.

    ......... and that's it.

    i'll investigate a bit more on the changes mentioned, but there doesn't appear to be a whole lot of difference between the 93-only unit and the '6397...
    Attached Files Attached Files
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


  13. #88
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    I plan to keep the A/C, but not the temperature sensor for the A/C...I don't have the little box+thermistor for that. It's a manual truck, so the list of stuff I don't intend to keep or isn't going to be used as per OEM, that was fitted somewhere on the original system, is as below:

    A/C Evaporator temperature (Pin A3)
    Transmission Fluid Temperature (Pin A32)
    Secondary Air Injection Control (Pin B3)
    Evap Purge Solenoid Control (Pin B4)
    EGR #1 Control (Pin B11)
    EGR #2 Control (Pin B12)
    EGR #3 Control (Pin B13)
    Passkey II (Pin C23)

    Auto Trans stuff that I don't need/might not even be there on 6397:

    Shift Solenoid A (Pin A11)
    Shift Solenoid B (Pin A12)
    TCC PWM Control (Pin A13)
    TCC Control (Pin A15)
    3-2 Downshift Solenoid Control (Pin A16)
    PRNDL A (pin A21)
    PRNDL C (Pin A23)
    2nd gear start lamp control (Pin B18)
    PCS High (pin C5)
    PCS Low (Pin C6)
    2nd Gear Start (Pin C10)

    I am torn on the Cruise Control stuff-I am not sure if it's usable, as my truck didn't have cruise control fitted and I am not sure how manual transmission cruise control would work, even if I did pull all the cruise junk off of another car.

    Hopefully I'll get the ECM booted up on the bench in a few hours and see what I really have here.

  14. #89
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    E:
    2: added resistor brings U10, pin 5 up to 5V... the two missing resistors appear to have been used in the same circuit, perhaps some logic was inverted?
    4: connector changes effect: pin C26(never used). runs over to the missing components from image 8. pin 22 is related to the missing resistors from image 2.
    5: U10 pin 2 and 5 interact here, which means it also is related to the change from image 2.
    6: diode was connecting analog channel 5(IAT) with the a/d reference voltage... so if for whatever reason IAT was above 5 volts(and whatever the diode's forward voltage at x mA is), the a/d converter would start having issues.
    8: covered by the images before it.

    seems there were only two major changes here, with supporting modifications done alongside. the diode on IAT to Vrh is strange....


    T:
    1: A28 effected by connector change. related to missing resistors from same image that causes a/d channel 5 to be connected to 5V(or ground???) via shorting link? not sure what to expect here... the circuit seems pretty broken up due to the removed resistors.
    2: B17 and B5 effected by connector change. both are outputs(B5 from the quad driver, B17 the surface-mount driver).

    that should cover it...

    some creative cutting/soldering may be necessary to add too much more than what is already here.... I'm thinking since the E-side analog4 is right on the corner of the chip(and even more unused than before), I'd just lift the pin and attach it to some add-in your own filtering/pullup/down circuitry rather than reworking. could either keep it as one channel or snake out and attach the existing mux A, B and C circuits to another mux and end up with 8. then, start cutting pins at the connectors and you'll have more a/d circuits than you'll know what to do with.
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


  15. #90
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    Argh. Turns out my "FTDI" USB to TTL cable that I ordered weeks ago and just now got around to plugging in is a Prolific clone. No good.

    Ordered another from another supplier, hopefully it'll work out better. Still haven't been able to connect to an ECU yet.

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