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Thread: Anyone worked with the 16196397 yet?

  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xnke View Post
    Doesn't work with the 1 bar sensor, once patched-but I think that was suspected behavior? I'm still not ready to suspect the patched code, but I'm running out of leads to chase down.

    Anyway, I'm going through the wiring harness with a fine-toothed comb, getting every input/output functioning as best I can figure it should, and improving the grounding anywhere possible. I am hoping to get a magic ground system that makes the communication link while running start working...from there it should be trivial to fix whatever problem I'm having. Lots of time crammed up under the dash with meter probes and wiring charts...
    not working with a 1BAR while the 2/3BAR patch is present is expected, I didn't find that code error for quite some time and haven't fixed it out of not expecting the scenario to be used.

    once solid communications can be established, it will help considerably, but I'm not sure where something would go wrong considering I nearly just ported the exact same boost code that works perfectly from my nAst1 project. when we can see what kind of advance and pulsewidth is being commanded, it may clue in what's going on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xnke View Post
    here's a datalog from today-Notice what i noticed after going through all the wiring again?

    Check out the Ignition Voltage...At 8.5 volts on the bench, comms drop out and the same thing happens-but with a stock bin and 1 bar sensor, the engine snaps up and runs good enough to get the alternator going-and the voltage comes back up, I guess.

    Time to look at my supply lines and battery again, I guess!
    at 8.5 volts, I'd be amazed if any of the relays weren't about to start opening up/chattering. that's if you're actually seeing 8.5 and something isn't causing the PCM to see that(weak circuit).
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


  2. #227
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    I haven't had any kind of luck hunting down the voltage drop issue-I am about to stuff a 22,000uF capacitor filter across the switched power and another across the battery power and hope that's enough to limit the voltage drop during cranking.

    I'll have the wideband in the pipe tomarrow, and should be able to get some fuel table feedback to try and get the PCM to at least attempt to control fueling-it's still Scrooge Mcduck rich, immediately after it fires.

    It's really, really strange-it will start and run for a few seconds every single time-with absolutely no regard to temperature or weather, just like a factory truck. But after the initial crankup and first firing, it immediately struggles to not drown in fuel. I'm hoping by leaning out the main and idle VE tables some, I can at least get it to run long enough to get the alternator on board, and hopefully that will cure the voltage issue.

    The odd thing is that the relays aren't chattering and nothing else seems to have an issue with the voltage-just the PCM. And it does it will all four functional PCM's I've got-I managed to rescue the dead ones.

  3. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xnke View Post
    I haven't had any kind of luck hunting down the voltage drop issue-I am about to stuff a 22,000uF capacitor filter across the switched power and another across the battery power and hope that's enough to limit the voltage drop during cranking.

    I'll have the wideband in the pipe tomarrow, and should be able to get some fuel table feedback to try and get the PCM to at least attempt to control fueling-it's still Scrooge Mcduck rich, immediately after it fires.

    It's really, really strange-it will start and run for a few seconds every single time-with absolutely no regard to temperature or weather, just like a factory truck. But after the initial crankup and first firing, it immediately struggles to not drown in fuel. I'm hoping by leaning out the main and idle VE tables some, I can at least get it to run long enough to get the alternator on board, and hopefully that will cure the voltage issue.

    The odd thing is that the relays aren't chattering and nothing else seems to have an issue with the voltage-just the PCM. And it does it will all four functional PCM's I've got-I managed to rescue the dead ones.
    Have you tried cracking the throttle blade to allow more air in, or remove a vacuum pipe. It might just allow it to keep it running long enough.

    Mitch
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    '95 Z28 M6 -Just the odd mod.
    '80 350 A3 C3 Corvette - recent addition.

  4. #229
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    It does make a difference, but opening up the throttle a bit gets it into a surging, lopside chug that belches raw fuel out the exhaust as vapor-you can literally light the exhaust on fire with a lighter. BIG boom after it's "idled" a minute! Opening the throttle too much causes a rapid RPM surge then it stalls out lean. Never does foul out the plugs-just soaks them in fuel. Gotta hand it to the GM DIS coil packs-they're blasting away like a champ.

    I have some time this evening, so I plan to go back out to the combustion lab and see what I can do as far as getting the idle straightened out and try the capacitor trick-it may be something as simple as trying to pull switched power from the wrong place, too, so who knows what I'll end up having to do to fix it yet.

  5. #230
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    Found a bad relay contact in the switched ignition line-was dropping 2.5V across the contact. This made a significant difference, but still hasn't fixed the massive amount of data corruption on the ALDL line-but at least it's talking now.

  6. #231
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    So I've made another terrible video for Youtube, to try and explain better what's happening here. I still don't have a clue what's going on, maybe VATS is killing it, maybe it's super rich, I can't tell.

    The wideband shows 13-14 AFR's when it starts, but when it would normally shift to the running table, I can't tell what happens because the engine either stalls out and dies, or I have to pedal the crap out of it to try to keep it running. The datastream is wigging out the whole time too, at least I have a datastream. Unfortunately, I haven't kept it running long enough to accurately measure the *running* PCM voltage. I still don't think it's an issue, though, because swapping to unpatched stock code and a 1 bar sensor lets the truck idle and free-rev OK, as long as I've changed the injector flow constant and the blower is bypassed.

    Fixing the voltage issue did solve the super-rich chugging issue where it would fill the whole lab with fuel vapor, though! Gotta take a win where I can get one.

  7. #232
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    i can't make any sense of the datastream issues..... I've seen vehicles have issues before with this PCM, but they were solved with a single tweak to the ADX. is it still freaking out if you use scan9495?
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


  8. #233
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrXr...ature=youtu.be

    There's a video of last night's work-I am building a little VATS module to test and see if that's the issue. Who knows, it's ten minutes to get one going.

    Possibly another update tonight.

  9. #234
    Fuel Injected! brian617's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xnke View Post
    I am building a little VATS module to test and see if that's the issue.
    Vats typically disables the fuel pump, how about monitoring fuel pump voltage/amperage to diagnose?
    89 K1500 Scottsdale 5.7L 5spd 3:42

    Build specs: 97 4 bolt main block 350ci, Eagle rotating assembly with flat tops and 4 valve reliefs, Dart 165cc/67cc Iron Eagle heads, Manely SS valves and springs 110lbs seat @1.7, GM Ram Jet cam 196/206 @.50 .431/.451, stock intake and throttle body, heads and intake gasket matched, Delco EP377 fuel pump @ 22 psi, 427 PCM.

  10. #235
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    VATS on the 94/95 camaros had a starter interlock and disabled the fuel injectors-not the fuel pump. Really, it's Passkey-II, not VATS.

    I don't have the starter interlock relay, as the S-10 doesn't have one-so VATS can't lock me out of the starter. It could be shutting off the injectors, though. I don't really think that's the problem but it's easy and free for me to build the module to check it, so I'm going to check.

    Gotta run down one thing at a time, so far I've got the voltage issue fixed, still don't have good data on the datastream, possible VATS shutting me down, could just be the tune is that far off.

    Like I said, with a 1 bar MAP sensor installed and the stock tune, if I set the VATS scalar to 0 and the fuel injector constant to the correct 36lbs, the truck will fire up and idle. I've copied that table into the 2-bar patched code, but no dice so far.

    Even with the 1 bar map/tune in the ECU, I still get the terrible datastream. Of all the datalogging I've done, I have one single 2 minute datalog of clean data-and that was with partially-patched code!

    EDIT: I wonder if the oil level/pressure stuff is cutting it off?? The PCM has monitors for oil level and oil pressure, but I don't have wiring diagrams for these two sensors-The oil pressure sending unit is the camaro unit and is wired properly for the camaro PCM-I didn't rewire it at all. The oil level sensor isn't present on the truck and I don't remember what I did with those wires...that might be it, but it wouldn't explain why it runs fine with the 1-bar sensor.

    I'm pretty much logic'ing myself into a tune-related problem, instead of a wiring issue-but then that doesn't explain the datastream freaking out like it is. Like I said above-one thing at a time.
    Last edited by Xnke; 01-26-2017 at 01:51 PM.

  11. #236
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    PCM doesn't monitor oil pressure, but it can monitor oil level(if the option is selected), but it doesn't modify run characteristics at all, only lights up the dash indicator. the way it operates is odd too, it waits for the engine to shut off, then if the oil level switch doesn't go from "low" to "not low" in a certain amount of time, it decides the oil level is low and lights up the indicator for the next start-up. if you're parked on an incline, you'll almost always get the light unless you have a very non-stock oil pan or are very overfilled on oil level.
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


  12. #237
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    OK, Progress!

    I scrapped the whole BIN file we've been fighting with, and started with the 1994 F body Manual revision 3 bin, from your archive Robert.

    Stock, unpatched, untouched. Just burned it to the PCM. And the truck started, but was very lean and didn't run. BUT, I had full communication in both Scan94/95 and Tunerpro, withPASSKEY-II error.

    Next, I edited the fuel injector size and configured it for 36lb injectors. Flashed it, started the truck, and full communication-and it kinda-sorta ran. PASSKEY-II error.

    Hooked up the PASSKEY-II emulation brick I built. Fired it up again, still had good comminucation, and the PASSKEY-II error was gone. Still kinda-sorta ran.

    Next, the Revision 3.01 patch. Still had good communication, still only kinda sorta ran.

    Next, I killed off PASSKEY-II. Still good communication, still only kinda sorta ran.

    Next, the Boost Patch. Unconfigured, I did nothing but patch the code and flash it. Still good communication, still barely runs without help.

    Next, I configured the patch scalars-but I did NOT configure the flag to set the patch active. Still good communication, still barely runs without help. I knew I would be fairly safe running as no boost could happen and I broke the engine in this way and it ran for 30 minutes with reasonable timing and fueling-a little retarted on the timing and a little rich on the fueling, but it ran fine with a bit of throttle help.

    Next, I set the patch active. The truck still runs with a bit of throttle help to keep it going, and still communicates with Tunerpro-no big data error problems but only 3hz or so. And then I go back and look at the logs...Yeah, something is seriously wrong. A few examples...

    Engine speed, 58.00 RPM. Actual somewhere around 1200.
    Vehicle speed 130 ??? Sitting still, parking brake on, in neutral.
    Spark advance? A cool 24201 degrees...plus or minus a thousand.

    So, now that I have good data communication with no errors, albeit at a low data rate, I have completely bonkers data. I've attached the relevant information below-I am so hoping this is ADX related and I can start tuning soon!

  13. #238
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    was data rate and sanity good right up until activating the boost patch? data rate should be close to 9Hz or so if you're not overloading your processor. if I open anything more than just the item list view while recording a log(especially a complex dash or monitor view), my data rate will drop right along with it and CPU usage rises considerably.
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


  14. #239
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    Data rate was about the same-but I've had 9-11hz before, just with errors.

    As far as the sanity of the data goes, I'll have to go back and look to see exactly where it goes nutso. I'll report back in a few minutes.

    Looks like the data is insane all the time. All the datalogs from the testing show the same kind of wacked out spark advance and RPM, but MAP values are good, temperature values seem OK, etc.
    Last edited by Xnke; 01-28-2017 at 05:46 PM.

  15. #240
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    if certain values are consistently reasonable and others aren't, that's already odd... and only a 3Hz rate?

    do you have any other GM OBD1 ECMs lying around by chance?
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


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