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Thread: Anyone worked with the 16196397 yet?

  1. #196
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    Got the EEPROMS desoldered from the board via the destructive method-boards are in prime condition for a pair of PLCC32 sockets now. Even though I have another PCM to use, I figure if I'm going to be flashing the thing I ought to go ahead and socket at least one PCM. I've got some old ISA cards with appropriate sockets, so tomarrow is the "let's be very careful" desoldering day.

    Now, the flash chips that were in my boards were not marked for speed-do I need to get 150nS units? 200nS? 100nS?

  2. #197
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    Diagnostic Cable

    Just an FYI: I don't know what your feelings are today regarding the diagnostic cable you are using and I am certainly no expert on the types of equipment available. What I do know is I have had good performance by the cables I have purchased from OBD Diagnostics, Inc. YMMVhttp://www.obdcable.com/aldl.asp

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xnke View Post
    Are the chips in these the same as the "EE" based PCMs for the LT1? If so, maybe there's hope for this one-or I can crack another one and add the wideband input.

    Chips are the same only a bit smaller 32kb each.You can use the old ones. If you buy new chips look for the lower latency ones. I think the intel ones on the board are 120ns.

    Desoldering is real easy with the proper equipment. I`ve seen a guy do it for 5 second with some heat gun.

    The chips are really easy the programm straight from the bin. Just split it in halve and programm. No funky scrambled raw bins as in ee mask.

  4. #199
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    The cable is an FYI based cable as is outlined here on the site. The issue is the FTDI drivers, they seem to simply "disappear" at random, taking the com port with them. Only seems to happen on XP, so using a different laptop may help. It appears to be related to some USB controller chip sets.

    The chips on my boards are all 28f256, 256kb 120ns. I'll try to get some more anyway, I only had two more in the stash.

    One method is to use a sharp knife and cut the pins off the PLCC, then desolder the pins one at a time. The other method involves a heat gun and aluminum foil.

  5. #200
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    OK, so I've got the spare PCM flashed and installed. Still have zero good data coming in to tunerpro while the engine is running, but data is fine with the engine not running.

    The engine will crank, fire, run for a short amount of time, and then stall out and die. It ACTS like an antitheft system, maybe VATS is shutting down the fueling? I can help it along with the throttle but no matter how much I help it, it will always stall out in a few seconds-sometimes I can choke it along for 45 seconds or so.

    Changing the fueling tables changes how it runs while it runs, but does not change the duration-it's always less than a minute no matter what. Sound like the VATS programming?

    Here are my VATS settings:

    VATS Frequency Limit: 0 (OE is 40)
    VATS Frequency Limit: 0 (OE is 60)
    VATS Fuel Disable Option: 0 (OE is 255)
    VATS: unchecked (OE is checked)

    I'm going to try setting the freqency limits back to 40 and 60 and see if I can get *something* to happen.

  6. #201
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    Putting the frequency limits back to 40 and 60 fixed the short-run problem.

    However, the underlying problem still exists-I can connect and talk to the ECU with Tunerpro and Scan94/95 as long as the engine is NOT running-but as soon as I start the engine, now the computer shuts up and all I get is data errors or loss of sync-I can not datalog at all.

  7. #202
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    More data.

    So I got to hunting for things that weren't exactly sanitary in the BIN file, and found that the Rev3 1.01 patch wasn't cleanly applied, so I unpatched and repatched, and it came up good. I guess it's the same as the boost patch wierdness that Robert found earlier-so I burned that to the PCM and gave it a shot. It now runs and will *almost* idle on it's own...I got it to idle for about 30 seconds with no throttle input and it sounds straight nasty. Major encouragement to get this thing running right!

    Scan94/95 has a nice raw communications logging tool, and this is the log from the most recent attempt. I still can't get a data log from either tunerpro or scan94/95 while the engine is actually running-this might help figure out why.

    This is data from a Key ON, Engine OFF state:

    Time=4:57:37 PM
    Engine request-->--E4570100----
    Response: E4 99 01 00 00 A3 7A 56 76 F0 1D 00 04 00 00 FF FF 04 00 00 00 00 67 06 A7 80 80 01 80 80 02 27 0F 00 FF 00 1C 00 E2 50 78 76 00 0C 01 28 FF 01 00 FF F9 00 9E 00 00 00 9F 00 FF 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00 8D cs=8D OK
    DTC data request-->--E4570102----
    Response: E4 6B 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 20 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 20 00 00 00 00 70 cs=70 OK

    Time=4:57:37 PM
    Engine request-->--E4570100----
    Response: E4 99 01 00 00 A3 7A 56 76 F0 1D 00 04 00 00 FF FF 04 00 00 00 00 67 06 A7 80 80 01 80 80 02 27 0F 00 FF 00 1C 00 E2 50 78 76 00 0C 01 28 FF 01 00 FF F9 00 9E 00 00 00 9F 00 FF 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00 8D cs=8D OK
    DTC data request-->--E4570102----
    Response: E4 6B 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 20 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 20 00 00 00 00 70 cs=70 OK

    Time=4:57:37 PM
    Engine request-->--E4570100----
    Response: E4 99 01 00 00 A3 76 56 76 F0 1D 00 04 00 00 FF FF 04 00 00 00 00 67 06 A7 80 80 66 80 80 66 27 0F 00 FF 00 1C 00 E2 40 78 76 00 0C 01 28 FF 01 00 FF F9 00 9E 00 00 00 9F 00 FF 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00 D8 cs=D8 OK
    DTC data request-->--E4570102----
    Response: E4 6B 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 20 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 20 00 00 00 00 70 cs=70 OK





    And now, This is what happens when you start cranking the engine, and it does NOT start:





    Time=4:57:37 PM
    Engine request-->--E4570100----
    Response: E4 99 01 00 00 A3 5C 56 76 F0 1C 00 04 00 00 FF FF 04 01 00 00 00 67 06 A7 80 80 01 80 0A 58 00 00 00 9E F0 56 E4 D6 0A 58 00 00 00 9E 9E 0A 58 00 00 00 9E F0 56 E4 D6 0A 58 00 00 00 9E 9E 0A 58 00 00 00 9E F0 56 cs=E3 Bad checksum!
    Bad response: E4 57 01 00 C4 E4 99 01DTC data request-->--E4570102----
    Response: cs=00 Bad checksum!
    Bad response: E4 D6 0A 58 00 00 00 E4 57 01 02 C2 0A 58 00 00 00 9E F0 56 E4 D6 0A 58 00 01 4A 53 0A 58 00 01 4A 53 0A 58 00 00 00 9E F0 56 E4 D6 0A 58 00 00 EC B2 0A 58 00 00 EC B2 0A 58 00 00 EC B2 0A 58 00 00 00 9E F0 56 E4 D6 0A 58 00 00 00 9E 0A 58 00 00 00 9E F0 56 E4 D6 0A 58 00 00 00 9E 0A 58 00 00 00 9EShutup request----E45608AE----
    Shutup request----E45608AE----
    Shutup request----E45608AE----

    Time=4:57:39 PM
    Engine request-->--E4570100----
    Response: cs=F6 Bad checksum!
    Bad response: 05 5F 00 C0 00 67 5A 00 00 00 00 A3 78 E4 57 01 00 C4 0A 58 00 00 00 9E F0 56 E4 D6 0A 58 00 00 00 9E 0A 58 00 00 00 9E F0 56 E4 D6 0A 58 00 00 00 9E 0A 58 00 00 B5 E9 0A 58 00 00 B5 E9 05 5F 00 C0 00 67 59 00 00 00 00 A3 79 0A 58 00 00 B5 E9 F0 56 E4 D6 0A 58 00 00 9E 00 0A 58 00 00 9E 00 00 0A 58DTC data request-->--E4570102----
    Response: cs=A8 Bad checksum!
    Bad response: 00 00 00 9E F0 56 E4 D6 0A 58 00 00 00 9E E4 57 01 02 C2 0A 58 00 00 00 9E F0 56 E4 D6 0A 58 00 00 EA B4 0A 58 00 00 EA B4 0A 58 00 00 0A 58 00 00 00 9E F0 56 E4 D6 0A 58 00 00 00 9E 0A 58 00 00 D5 C9 0A 58 00 00 D5 C9 0A 58 00 00 00 9E F0 56 E4 D6 0A 58 00 00 00 9E 9E 0A 58 00 00 00 9E 0A 58 00 00Shutup request----E45608AE----
    Shutup request----E45608AE----
    Shutup request----E45608AE----

    Time=4:57:40 PM
    Engine request-->--E4570100----
    Response: cs=00 OK
    DTC data request-->--E4570102----
    Response: cs=A8 Bad checksum!
    Bad response: E4 57 01 02 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 0A 58 00 00 00 9E 9E 0A 58 00 00 00 9E F0 56 E4 D6 0A 58 00 00 00 9E F0 0A 58 00 00 00 9E 0A 58 00 00 00 9E F0 56 E4 D6 0A 58 00 00 00 9E 0A 58 00 00 00 9E 0A 58 00 00 00 9E 05 5F 00 80 00 67 7C 00 00 00 00 A6 93 0A 58 00 00Shutup request----E45608AE----
    Shutup request----E45608AE----
    Shutup request----E45608AE----

    Time=4:57:49 PM
    Engine request-->--E4570100----
    Response: E4 99 01 00 00 A2 7A 54 75 F0 1D 00 04 00 00 FF FF 04 02 00 00 00 67 05 7A 80 80 92 80 80 94 27 0F 79 FF 00 1C 00 E2 50 78 73 00 0C 01 28 FF 01 00 00 F9 00 9E 00 00 00 9F 00 FF 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00 23 cs=23 OK
    DTC data request-->--E4570102----
    Response: E4 6B 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 20 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 90 cs=90 OK





    And here is a running engine:




    Engine request-->--E4570100----
    Response: E4 99 01 00 00 A2 78 54 75 F0 BE EF 04 00 00 FF FF 04 02 00 00 00 67 00 20 80 80 A2 80 80 A1 27 0F 00 FF 00 1C 00 E2 50 78 73 00 0C 01 28 FF 01 00 00 F9 00 9E 00 00 00 9F 00 FF 00 00 0F 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00 61 cs=41 Bad checksum!
    Bad response: E4 57 01 00 C4 E4 99 01DTC data request-->--E4570102----
    Response: E4 6B 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 20 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 90 cs=90 OK

    Time=4:57:53 PM
    Engine request-->--E4570100----
    Response: cs=54 Bad checksum!
    Bad response: E4 57 01 00 C4 0A 58 00 00 00 9E F0 56 E4 D6 0A 58 00 00 00 9E 0A 58 00 00 00 9E 0A 58 00 00 00 9E F0 56 E4 D6 0A 58 00 00 00 9E 9E 0A 58 00 00 00 9E F0 56 E4 D6 0A 58 00 00 0A 58 00 00 00 9E F0 56 E4 D6 0A 58 00 00 00 0A 58 00 00 00 9E F0 56 E4 D6 D6 D6 D6 D6 D6 D6 D6 D6 D6 D6 D6 D6 D6 D6 D6 D6 D6DTC data request-->--E4570102----
    Response: cs=7C Bad checksum!
    Bad response: E4 57 01 02 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2Shutup request----E45608AE----
    Shutup request----E45608AE----
    Shutup request----E45608AE----

    Time=4:58:05 PM
    Engine request-->--E4570100----
    Response: cs=78 Bad checksum!
    Bad response: E4 57 01 00 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4 C4DTC data request-->--E4570102----
    Response: cs=80 Bad checksum!
    Bad response: E4 57 01 02 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 C2 0A 58 00 00 00 9E F0 56 E4 D6 0A 58 00 00 00 9E 0A 58 00 00 00 9E 0A 58 00 00 00 9E 05 5F 00 80 00 67Shutup request----E45608AE----
    Shutup request----E45608AE----
    Shutup request----E45608AE----

    Time=4:58:20 PM
    Engine request-->--E4570100----
    Response: E4 99 01 00 00 9F 00 58 28 F0 1D 00 04 00 00 FF FF 40 03 00 00 00 90 05 C4 80 80 00 80 80 00 69 0F 00 FF 00 1C 00 E2 4C 74 18 00 0C 01 28 E0 01 00 00 F9 00 9E 00 00 00 9F 00 FF 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00 18 cs=18 OK
    DTC data request-->--E4570102----
    Response: E4 6B 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 20 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 90 cs=90 OK

  8. #203
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    looking back through the threads, I might have to look and see if I have a power problem-The original "won't talk" problem was caused by not getting enough power to the PCM, so maybe I've just got a shit battery/loose wire somewhere?

  9. #204
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    There is definitely some noise interference when the engine is runnig. Maybe the PCM grounds are not good, or some other wiring. The PCM should get only grounds through the wires and should be isolated from chasis. Interesting only data for 01 message is corrupt the broadcast messages that follow immediately are good. May be related to patch in some way.

    Causes could be, patch, baud rate problems at ftdi chip due to noise.
    Or some wiring problems.

    I should look first at aldl cable first, than wiring and grounds.

    What model aldl cable are you using. I ve seen some ftdi chips that just dont work, or work sometimes.

  10. #205
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    It's a homemade one, based off the tutorial here. It's worked fine in other cars, and works fine to flash the PCM, and it works fine as long as the engine isn't running. I think I might have a grounding issue or something somewhere, I'll check it out today.

  11. #206
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    the 24X sensor value should stop updating after the PCM starts to ignore it(~1250RPM for a FWD calibration and I think 2000ish for RWD). why GM chose to split those RPM thresholds, I don't know.

    I've had some FTDI boards act funny before, but it usually takes some abuse before that happens. my ALDLCable.com version lasted about a year before it started getting wonky, then I built my own. unfortunately, due to the 8192 baud speed, options are somewhat limited. the CP2102 can be made to work, but I can't really say if it's any better. at this point, my USB ports themselves are getting kind of worn out and contributing to me shallow breathing during a flash.

    with a 2.1MHz clock speed, even a 250nS PROM is going to be more than fast enough for a nearly 500nS cycle. stock PROMs should be 120nS though.

    the hell is it with the patch function lately? I've never seen it do that before, let alone twice with one BIN. i'll have to see if Mark can replicate it and verify it as an actual bug rather than us screwing something up.

    the data given out after a crank attempt looks like typical mode 0 data(trip computer and some digital dash stuff). then for engine running, the "response" literally filling up the data queue with repeating values is certainly something else causing interference, but being that repeatable is odd, I would expect some dithering of the signal.
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


  12. #207
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    It has got to be something to do the truck wiring. I cant find any serious noise, the ICM tests fine, the alternator tests fine, the best battery tests fine, but no dice.

    Going to go through all the grounds and all the supply lines again, and see if I have a loose ground or something. I started down that road and had to stop due to the rain.

  13. #208
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    Ok, so the truck runs continuously now-but it's so super rich it chokes out. No big deal, just flash an update tune...Nope. Bricked another PCM.

    Turns out it's my laptop's USB ports that are the issue. They're flaking out left and right.

    So, I've got a TL866 programmer, and MicroPro. I've got a BIN file that I'd like to flash to the two chips. How do I go about splitting the file and programming it? Apparently this is going to be a regular thing for a bit...

    I've got another laptop that I'll set up to run tonight. It's so close to being drivable! If I can get it leaned out enough to idle and datalog, it'll be a quick job to tune it up, just gotta get this flash programming under control.

  14. #209
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    So, programming the chips, no problem. How to split the bin, AND, which chip goes where...there's the issue.

  15. #210
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    splitting the BIN is easy, I just use tunerpro. with tunerpro open, press F5(or go through menus for Tools->BIN stacker/splitter), put into split mode via radio button, select path for the BIN you want split, set BIN size and block size to 32KB with chip size of 64KB. "browse" for a save location for positions 0 and 1(0 should be E-side, 1 should be T-side), press split and you should have 2 32KB BIN files wherever you set it up to save.

    as for which BIN does which half: see the knock filter? that's the e-side.
    1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo LS 3100 + 4T60E


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